Can someone tell me where american staffordshire terriors are welcomed in Montana? (Missoula: rental, theatre)

[LeaveMeBe]

I too have a pit bull..she was a rescue..it's not the breed it's the dog. Pit's were initially bred to fight. Just as yorkies were bred to hunt rats. Now we all know that MOST of us have dogs that have no jobs. It's crazy to go on what the dog was initially bred for because it just isn't the case in this day.

[jimj]

Unless you're in the NFL and a quarterback
Seriously though, I've seen scary mean pits and real nice pits just like I've seen scary shepards and nice ones. I was attacked once by my neighbors Rottwieler just walking across my front yard to talk to them. Do I blame the dog? No just an idiot owner that allowed the dog to be that way.

[Reziac]

Pitbulls were bred to fight with other DOGS and other ANIMALS -- not with people. A dog that attacked humans, or bit its handler while in the fighting ring, was killed on the spot.

If you get a chance, attend a UKC dog show -- you'll see what *well-bred* Pits are really like. If anything, they err on the side of "overly-friendly with everyone that walks by", and are no more dog-aggressive than any of the other terrier breeds. (Don't confuse the trash dogs kept by drug dealers with good quality Pits -- they're no more typical of the breed than attack dogs are of German Shepherds.)

Fact is, Pits are NOT more likely to bite humans than other breeds -- in fact they're down around #10 on the list.

Furthermore, the risk of being killed by a dog is blown all out of proportion by the media (largely at the behest of "animal rights" groups that want ALL dogs gone from society). Out of all the ways you can die, dog attack is perhaps the LEAST likely (8 to 12 deaths in the U.S. per year). Even rattlesnake bite is more of a risk (12 to 14 deaths in the U.S. per year). Your chance of being killed while driving your car is vastly higher (something like 35,000 deaths/year), and if you drive a little tincan you're more likely to get killed than if you drive a truck, yet no one makes draconian laws prohibiting driving little cars!!

Yes, dogs that run loose do lose track of what really is "their" territory, and become a risk to chase and bite people. But this isn't limited to any specific breed; in fact herding dogs are among the worst offenders for that. The cure is to beat the *owner* upside the head until he figures out that his dogs should be kept at home, whether kenneled or chained makes little difference (tho chained dogs tend to be LESS territorial, thus LESS aggressive, than dogs behind a fence). And yes, shoot problem dogs that chronically run loose. But don't get carried away and start killing every pet that gets loose (and it happens even with the most secure setups) and barks at someone on the street.

Disclaimer: I am a professional dog trainer with 38 years (and 2000+ dogs) experience. I have Labradors, not Pits, but I attend UKC shows regularly, so I see plenty of nice Pits (and rarer "bully" breeds) -- as the breed is meant to be, not as the media portrays it.

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[AQHA]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Fact is, Pits are NOT more likely to bite humans than other breeds -- in fact they're down around #10 on the list.



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...But when they do bite it's much much more severe, and getting them to stop the attack is not done with a swift kick. When they get going on an attack they get the will to kill.
I'm not a professional dog trainer with 38 years experience but I have been on the receiving end of two pitbull attacks so I may be a better judge of what these dogs are capable of than you.

I agree pits can be very sweet and loyal dogs (I have owned them myself) but there is no denying the fact that they are a tough and determined dog that have a high drive to fight and can be very dangerous to people.

[Arleigh-20]

I hear Mars is a nice place for pit bulls. I think there might already be some on Mars who were biters, and got their butt kicked so hard,
they landed there.

[jenzebel]

Pitbull=perfect Grizzly snack

Just remember, if your dog gets out and starts chasing wildlife or people and you live outside of city limits--someone will shoot the sob.

[Reziac]

Here's the root of the problem: too many novices want dogs that are more than they can handle, and current cookie-training techniques exacerbate the problem by ensuring that the human is NEVER REALLY THE BOSS. With a dominant dog like a typical Pit, Rottweiler, or Chow, this confuses it as to whether the human is in charge. If you're not in charge, you could be a target. And dogs of all breeds have a very strong instinct to cull "weaklings". In short, the average person today is not equipped to handle this type of dog as a pet, and it's unfortunate that so many green newbies acquire dogs they cannot handle (and often refuse to learn).

This problem will get worse as experienced breeders capable of educating newbies are driven out of business by draconian anti-kennel laws (as were proposed by PAWS and California AB1634) so that through lack of choice, more and more people acquire puppies from newbie breeders (who lack the experience needed to read puppies and prospective owners well enough to judge a bad match, are very unlikely to turn down a sale, and rely on "cookie training") or from pet shops (where there is no "match control" at all).

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I've had two of my own dogs attacked by Pits, and I was once attacked by a neighbour's free-roaming Akita (in Japan the Akita is a pit-fighting breed, NOT a pet) which I subsequently shot and killed. But if you've seen enough dog fights of the sort that occur naturally among dog packs, you begin to realise that Pits are rather less destructive fighters than average, being more inclined to grip and shake rather than rip and shred (which does far more damage). A fight between two Labrador ******* gets a lot uglier (and is far more likely to end with a dead dog if no human with sufficient "Boss Karma" is available to stop it) than any fight involving a Pit.

Another issue: "rescues". The majority of "rescue dogs" were not rescued at all, but rather were voluntarily surrendered by their owners, usually for one of two reasons: 1) uncontrollable grand mal epilespy, or 2) biting, especially of children. The truth is, most rescues are in it for the money (suckers pay all their expenses, while they get grants and tax-free status), and if that means you get a dog you can't handle and that by all rights should have gone in the ground... oh well!! Yes, occasionally a good dog winds up in rescue, but they are the exception, not the rule. The vast majority are someone else's reject, and rejected for good cause.

Take heed of the immortal words of James Lamb Free, uttered back in 1948: It's just as easy to love a good one.

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[truckingbronco]

I read a story about two pits that went into a ladies house and attacked her and killed her dog. I think Denver has the right idea.

[Reziac]

What about the Dachshund that killed a child? Should all of that small breed be done away with too?? After all, as a breed, Doxies are more aggressive than Pits.

Or how about all the mutts that get reported as Pits, or as German Shepherds (that was the fear-inspiring breed of 30 years ago, that many people thought should be exterminated) or as whatever someone with no broad experience of dog breeds THINKS the mutt is?

Consider that there are probably a couple million purebred Pit Bulls in the U.S. How many of them have actually attacked someone?

There are bad dogs, just as there are bad people. Those bad dogs (and bad people) should be killed, ONCE THEY DEMONSTRATE THAT THEY ARE BAD. But killing all Pits because there are a few dangerous specimens is exactly like killing all well-muscled men, just because a few of them like to beat up women. Round up all the bodybuilders and into the incinerator with 'em! after all, they look mean, and some of 'em ARE mean, so let's assume they're ALL mean and preemptively kill them off.

You can't sanely punish thought crime, as it requires punishment PRIOR TO ANY BAD ACT BEING COMMITTED. Assuming that all of a given breed of dog are aggressive, and condemning all of them for the sins of a few, is no different.

[jimj]

Good point Reziac! I have a friend who is a canine cop and has had to shoot 2 dobermans. One attacked him while he was on patrol in the car and the other attacked him in his bed. Woke up to his dog standing over him about to bite, reached over grabbed his gun and shot it!
Does that mean all are bad and should be exterminated? No, it just means the training backfired or the dogs were faulty in some way.