Can someone tell me where american staffordshire terriors are welcomed in Montana? (Billings: neighborhood, living in)

[vegjet]

Thanks Reziac, I appreciate your input into this forum. I too own Pits and Dogos, loving dogs, for those of you who say they have owned pits and still slam the breed, then all you are saying is that owning a pitbull is not for you, get a backyard dog. Pitbulls take your heart, they are the clowns, they make you laugh everyday. I have owned them my whole life and being a surgical vet tech, I have helped put many back together after a fight. Montana is a relief to me, I come from St Louis where the ghetto jerks train and fight these dogs. In 15 years I have never had to muzzle one of them to treat them, in fact, they lick your hands as you sew them up. Other breeds? Akitas, Chows, Rotts, German Shepards, Shar Pei, even the Cattle dog will all bite you out of pain or fear. I am not saying a pitbull won't protect or bite, I am saying they come out of mama loving people and people are what destroy them. You can train a pit not to be animal aggressive, but you have to train one to be people aggressive. Resiac is right, in early times, if a pit so much as growled at a human he was put down and that line was stopped. They have great power and people abuse it. My pit is coming to Wibaux Thursday to see the vet, I wonder how my little clown will be accepted after reading this forum. Banning a breed will not stop the idiots, they will pick another, and another and another. I have Argentine Dogos too, now that breed is serious. If you don't make your dogs a major part of your life, then don't get a bull breed. I know where my dogs are every minute, of every day, no matter what. Responsibility is required and no manual supplied. Many cities have initiated laws to ban the pitbull, that means you have 60 days to dispose of your family pet or they will fine you and come take the dog and destroy it. Is that even close to being American? Freedom of choice? I agree if my dog is running loose, chasing livestock, killing chickens or whatever that the owner of said stock has every right to shoot to kill. It's MY responsibility to take care of MY dogs. Punish the deed, not the breed. Anyone who has an opinion on pitbulls be it good or bad should watch this video, please take the time, btw, cattle dogs are banned in Ireland, along with a host of others, is your dog next? Thanks for the forum time, the other site is my dogs for those who are curious. Warmest regards, Dana

Moderator cut: a little much

[leavin_florida]

I can appecaite your perdicament - it is important to note that according to the AKC American Stafforshire Terriors are related to but are not pit bulls. The water muddies as the UKC classifies them as Pit Bulls. Every thing I've read indicates that Staffs are friendly and loving toward people if they are properly socialized. They are known to be agressive with other animals. Anything that is small or moves quickly might be considered prey. The Staffs I know can be very distructive to property - the list of shredded furniture and walls grows every time I ask my friends "how are your dogs". I've never noticed a pit bull with the spinning tendancy of Staffs.

I appeciate your refusal give up your dog - I have Jack Russlle Terriers that I love dearly. I really worry about the pit that I saw in the neighboor hood we are moving to. I would really hate to have anything happy to my babies.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by vegjet

Thanks Reziac, I appreciate your input into this forum. I too own Pits and Dogos, loving dogs, for those of you who say they have owned pits and still slam the breed, then all you are saying is that owning a pitbull is not for you

That's often true... Pits need someone who is confidently The Boss, or they will become bullies (not necessarily mean, but running the household to suit themselves). If you can't be the boss of your dog, and by that I mean a leader the dog will accept without question, then self-confident and high-drive breeds like Pits are not for you. If you cannot be the pack leader, get a show-bred (not fieldbred) Golden Retriever, Poodle, or some other low-initiative breed that is purely a "follower" by nature, and will not challenge you. And never, EVER acquire a dog to, uh, enhance your masculine implement (doing so is a sure recipe for trouble).

As to general temperament, Pits have one of the highest pass rates of any breed that has had over 500 individuals tested by the American Temperament Testing Society (ATTS - American Temperament Test Society, Inc. - Home), meaning that their *public* behaviour is among the most stable breeds.

As to the Dogo Argentino, while originally developed as for hunting large game in packs, they have also been bred for aggression against humans, and are used as guards that are willing to kill a man (they're kept tied in pairs outside the doors of rich folks' houses, because of the high crime rate in their native land). But even so, a guard dog needs to discriminate between "perp that needs killing" and "the maid, the gardener, and the kids". So indiscriminate aggression is not appropriate. -- As it happens I just talked to someone who has judged Dogos in Argentina, and there the judge doesn't touch the dog in the ring, because since the judge is a stranger, the Dogo WILL behave as though that's a threat to its owner. However, back to ATTS stats -- only a few Dogos have been tested, but so far they have a 90% pass rate, which is much better than average.

Being bred for aggressive guardiness against humans isn't unique to Dogos, tho. The German Shepherds, Dobes, Rotts, and Boxers that came over from Germany after WW2 were mostly from lines that had been bred as man-killers and nothing else, and it took American breeders several generations to weed that out and get the temperaments refined to where these dogs could live with normal people as everyday pets. Then as now, if you are interested in any breed that has been used for guard work, you need to research which bloodlines are human-aggressive, and which lines are safe, and be very willing to cull out individuals that you would not trust with your neighbour's children or grandmother (even if the dog had never met them before, and you are not present to control the dog).

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[Reziac]

Originally Posted by leavin_florida

I can appecaite your perdicament - it is important to note that according to the AKC American Stafforshire Terriors are related to but are not pit bulls.

Sorry, you are wrong about that -- despite some confusion engendered by the various stud books, and some divergence of pedigrees, historically they are the SAME breed; this has been documented with extensive background info (tho offhand I can't find the article I wanted about it). In fact many Pits are double-registered (and some are Champions in both registries) -- as "American Pit Bull Terriers" with UKC, and as "American Staffordshire Terriers" with AKC. The only difference is the name.

There are various lines of Pit Bulls too, some of which are not eligible for AKC registration -- and some that aren't eligible for UKC reg'n, for that matter. UKC isn't as fussy about documentation of pedigrees as is AKC, which is why AKC will not accept registrations from UKC of *any* breed, not just Pits; but unlike AKC, UKC requires hands-on inspection of Pits that apply for "single registration" (of a dog coming from another registry).

Conversely, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier is a different breed (and often added to the "ban all bully breeds" target solely because of its name -- despite being a 20 lb. dog with the most petlike temperament imaginable).

Speaking of UKC, I got a nice Xmas present at the last show of the season -- my Labrador went Reserve Best In Show! Longplain Kennels: Longplain Cavus (http://home.earthlink.net/~rividh/kennel/pedigree/delve.htm - broken link)

(That's interesting.. the forum goes off and fetches the page title for the URL and uses that as the link. Keep your page titles updated, folks!

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[Harley_man]

Originally Posted by truckingbronco

I read a story about two pits that went into a ladies house and attacked her and killed her dog. I think Denver has the right idea.

I agree. People in denver dont have what it takes to handle a pit bull and the county is being smart by banning the breed. I would hate for an innocent pit bull to be in a owners hands who can't handle them. So stick to your labs and retreivers Denver.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Harley_man

I agree. People in denver dont have what it takes to handle a pit bull and the county is being smart by banning the breed. I would hate for an innocent pit bull to be in a owners hands who can't handle them. So stick to your labs and retreivers Denver.

[deliberately ignoring sarcasm for the sake of making an important point]

Trouble is, once any breed is banned, it's easy to ban others, and soon ALL are banned (this is exactly what the "animal rights" nuts WANT -- the whole idea is to ultimately take ALL dogs away from EVERYONE), and lookalike breeds can feel the axe too. -- Part of Germany recently banned ALL dogs over 30 pounds, regardless of breed, because OMG they MIGHT be dangerous!!

I guess everyone who owns ballpeen hammers should be rounded up too, because after all they might be used to smash someone's kneecaps!

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[GLS]

Originally Posted by Reziac

... -- Part of Germany recently banned ALL dogs over 30 pounds, regardless of breed, because OMG they MIGHT be dangerous!!

I guess everyone who owns ballpeen hammers should be rounded up too, because after all they might be used to smash someone's kneecaps!

NOBODY is going to take my dog no matter how much I over-feed him................and, I find a 27 oz Vaughn framing hammer with a waffle head much more effective.

[LPerkins33]

there is a whole boat load of misinformation here. There's no such thing as bad dogs, only bad owners.

Oh and more people are attacked by labs in this country than pit bulls. Thats not just because there are more labs either.

[GiftShoppeGuy]

Here's a little history for all of you;

In the 60's, it was the German Shepard.... No one could handle them because they were very aggressive and made great watch dogs.

In the 70's it was the Doberman Pinscher... fly off the handle at a moments notice and bite.... Seattle and other major cities even passed laws against them in those days.

In the 80's, enter the American Bred Pit Bull Terrier... sure, they were lovable enough but like the German Shepards and Doberman Pinschers, they were/are regarded as unstable and aggressive.

It's not the fault of the animal, not even a little bit.... The fault lies squarely in the fact that people are generally irresponsible. It's the irresponsibility of humans that causes the canine so much grief.

Pit Bull Terriers are outlawed within the city limits of Great Falls by the way, and I'm nearly sure they are in Missoula, Bozeman, Billings and other areas around the state as well.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by GiftShoppeGuy

Here's a little history for all of you;

In the 60's, it was the German Shepard.... No one could handle them because they were very aggressive and made great watch dogs.

In the 70's it was the Doberman Pinscher... fly off the handle at a moments notice and bite.... Seattle and other major cities even passed laws against them in those days.

In the 80's, enter the American Bred Pit Bull Terrier... sure, they were lovable enough but like the German Shepards and Doberman Pinschers, they were/are regarded as unstable and aggressive.

It's not the fault of the animal, not even a little bit.... The fault lies squarely in the fact that people are generally irresponsible. It's the irresponsibility of humans that causes the canine so much grief.

Pit Bull Terriers are outlawed within the city limits of Great Falls by the way, and I'm nearly sure they are in Missoula, Bozeman, Billings and other areas around the state as well.

Good to see you back from your hiatus Giftshoppe! I wasn't aware of that ban, I guess you learn something new everyday... thanks.