Is there any friendly people in Montana? (rental, tenant)

[Montguy]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Compared to where??

U.S. Crime Index State Rank

Yes, let's immediately deflect to the problems of other states.

Bad things do happen here, that's the point. It would just be interesting to see Montanans (at least the ones who post here) attempt to evaluate problems in their communities and others in our state, especially crime-specific ones. Or at least acknowledge that any problems actually exist...whichever.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Montguy

Yes, let's immediately deflect to the problems of other states.

Bad things do happen here, that's the point. It would just be interesting to see Montanans (at least the ones who post here) attempt to evaluate problems in their communities and others in our state, especially crime-specific ones. Or at least acknowledge that any problems actually exist...whichever.

Bad things happen everywhere.
Problems exist everywhere.
But we have fewer than most places.
I'd like to keep it that way.

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

Well, I'm in Montana right now, I live in Washington, & I think people from all walks of life, male, female, old, young, in between, are nicer here, & a lot more polite, especially regarding driving, than where I live.

I've met folks in Butte, Helena, Missoula, Great Falls (ex-MIL's hometown), Billings, Anaconda, Phillipsburg, Deer Lodge, Red Lodge, Dillon, Flathead Lake, Thompson Falls, Miles City, that's all the places that come to mind right now, but there are many more, I just can't remember. These were people who helped me with my car, bought me a beer, shot the breeze with me, etc., so...

I also think it's awesome that some of the rest stops have penned-in exercise areas with water & poopbags, so my crazy-ass dog won't go streaking across the state!

[Montguy]

Originally Posted by Reziac

Bad things happen everywhere.
Problems exist everywhere.
But we have fewer than most places.
I'd like to keep it that way.

According to the crime index you posted, there are 13 states with a lower index than Montana's, with New York, New Jersey and Virginia among them, interestingly.

No doubt that for you "keeping it that way" means a continued trend of low population density, along with, probably, maintaining our current demographics, economic model and migration patterns, all for political reasons rather than practical ones. Same old subjective ****.

And who wants to talk about the return of Montana's chrystal meth problem? (Montanans on meth are sometimes not very nice.) The problem that law enforcement all over the state has acknowledged as a major catalyst for a current uptick in violent crimes, CPS interventions and incarcerations?

Anyone?

[Montguy]

Originally Posted by MarciaMarshaMarcia

Well, I'm in Montana right now, I live in Washington, & I think people from all walks of life, male, female, old, young, in between, are nicer here, & a lot more polite, especially regarding driving, than where I live.

The only thing I have to take issue with is this idea that Montanans are good drivers. They're phenomenally awful, and I consider myself privileged anytime I get to go drive somewhere else (besides Idaho, maybe).

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Montguy

According to the crime index you posted, there are 13 states with a lower index than Montana's, with New York, New Jersey and Virginia among them, interestingly.

No doubt that for you "keeping it that way" means a continued trend of low population density, along with, probably, maintaining our current demographics, economic model and migration patterns, all for political reasons rather than practical ones. Same old subjective ****.

And who wants to talk about the return of Montana's chrystal meth problem? (Montanans on meth are sometimes not very nice.) The problem that law enforcement all over the state has acknowledged as a major catalyst for a current uptick in violent crimes, CPS interventions and incarcerations?

Anyone?

Ya know, just because someone points out that X isn't as bad here, doesn't mean they deny X happens at all.

In recent years New York had a spectacular crime drop due to NYC's previous administration's policing policies. And I didn't check whether these numbers had been massaged; it was just the first state list I came to. The point is that MT is in the low end of the crime spectrum (differences of less than 100 points or so are probably just statistical noise).

And yes, I would like to maintain our continued trend of low population density, current demographics, etc. -- for practical reasons, not political. As someone once said, politics is downstream from culture. I've seen what a changing demographic does to culture and crime rates. When I left SoCal, it had got to where anything not nailed down and guarded 24/7 would walk with Jesus.

Here's one I pulled from City-Data (this was in 2007), for two places where I've lived 10+ years:

For population 25 years and over in Lancaster, California:
* High school or higher: 78.3%
* Bachelor's degree or higher: 15.8%
* Graduate or professional degree: 5.6%
* Unemployed: 11.2%
For population 25 years and over in Bozeman, Montana:
* High school or higher: 94.3%
* Bachelor's degree or higher: 49.5%
* Graduate or professional degree: 15.6%
* Unemployed: 9.5%

What do you think that does to your economic profile?

At the time the crime index number was around 300 for Bozeman (which was high for MT) and 900 for Lancaster (which was low for SoCal).

The Meth Problem:

Meth is a widespread problem, but there again MT is neither unique nor in the upper range.

meth labs:
The Methiest States In The U.S. (INFOGRAPHIC) | HuffPost
My home was a former meth lab - Feb. 12, 2013

Methamphetamine Abuse by State - Crystal Meth Recovery
"Meth is the biggest drug problem throughout the state of Montana according to their law enforcement. Most of the methamphetamine coming into the state comes from Mexican DTOs which is then distributed throughout the state of Montana. There are small illegal meth labs that are local but they only produce small amounts at a time. Montana's small clandestine labs do sell meth locally and also produce meth for their own personal use."

So, shall we bring in more Mexican drug trafficking organizations? I thought we had enough already. What demographic do you expect to arrive in a state that generally lacks jobs for the uneducated?

Per capita in rehab (this doesn't distinguish upper ranges, nor reflect users NOT in rehab)
Map - The Reach Of Meth | The Meth Epidemic | FRONTLINE | PBS

Some different numbers, tho not very specific:
https://wallethub.com/edu/drug-use-by-state/35150/

Hype isn't helpful:
https://mic.com/articles/65703/how-m...old-in-america
"In 2005, an analysis by Slate.com showed that U.S. newspapers had used the title “Meth Capitol of the World” to describe over 70 different American towns, cities, and countries, from California to New York."

More maps (animated; you'll need to set your browser to let them loop):
The State Of Drug Use In America, In 9 Maps | HuffPost

What were you saying about demographics??

But it could be worse.
It could be Krok.
(NSFW. Fair warning, you can't unsee this.)

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Montguy

The only thing I have to take issue with is this idea that Montanans are good drivers. They're phenomenally awful, and I consider myself privileged anytime I get to go drive somewhere else (besides Idaho, maybe).

Hard numbers:
Fatality Facts

This doesn't break out accident due to winter hazards or suicidal deer, but I'd guess that would account for a good chunk of MT fatalities, since ours are heavily skewed toward single-vehicle and rural. Ditto Wyoming.

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

Originally Posted by Montguy

The only thing I have to take issue with is this idea that Montanans are good drivers. They're phenomenally awful, and I consider myself privileged anytime I get to go drive somewhere else (besides Idaho, maybe).

I didn't say that Montana drivers are "good" drivers, but no driver in Montana has tried to force me into a ditch, pass me on my right on a 2-lane country road, pass me on a no-passing 2-lane bridge over deep water, or do the same on a narrow mountain road, ride my a-- just because they can, honk at me when I'm already going the speed limit (and Washington has lots of Staties just itching to pass out expensive speeding tickets), throw a full beer can at the windshield my car as I drive by them, throw an object at me from THEIR vehicle while walking my dog, scream "you f---" at me while I am pulling into my own driveway. All these things have happened to me in rural Western Washington, never anyplace else. I literally feel safer driving the crowded freeways of Seattle when I go there for Dr. appointments. I have to deal with that, along with nature's challenges...rain, black ice, deer, etc. Oh, don't forget, marijuana is legal in WA, so it's pretty common to see someone toking & driving. So, come on over to my state & drive around for awhile & let me know if you feel relaxed after driving in that.

BTW, meth is a problem everywhere, in every state. It's a scourge that has the ability to destroy this country...I feel this way because of what I've seen, & I'm no zealot. It started in California in the late 1970's & now it's everywhere.

[mod cut]

[Montguy]

Originally Posted by MarciaMarshaMarcia

I didn't say that Montana drivers are "good" drivers, but no driver in Montana has tried to force me into a ditch, pass me on my right on a 2-lane country road, pass me on a no-passing 2-lane bridge over deep water, or do the same on a narrow mountain road, ride my a-- just because they can, honk at me when I'm already going the speed limit (and Washington has lots of Staties just itching to pass out expensive speeding tickets), throw a full beer can at the windshield my car as I drive by them, throw an object at me from THEIR vehicle while walking my dog, scream "you f---" at me while I am pulling into my own driveway. All these things have happened to me in rural Western Washington, never anyplace else. I literally feel safer driving the crowded freeways of Seattle when I go there for Dr. appointments. I have to deal with that, along with nature's challenges...rain, black ice, deer, etc. Oh, don't forget, marijuana is legal in WA, so it's pretty common to see someone toking & driving. So, come on over to my state & drive around for awhile & let me know if you feel relaxed after driving in that.

BTW, meth is a problem everywhere, in every state. It's a scourge that has the ability to destroy this country...I feel this way because of what I've seen, & I'm no zealot. It started in California in the late 1970's & now it's everywhere.

I had no idea that my original comment would start that diatribe above. Maybe you two should move to Washington, land of great natural beauty & lots of hostile people, or even try for California. Geeze.

I've driven all over WA state for the last two decades and never had these problems, but not living there would obviously make a difference.

But I respectfully disagree that Montana drivers are polite. The interstates are less of a problem than town and city roads, but these jerk-offs who obstruct traffic by driving beneath the posted speed limits are extremely rude and really quite dangerous. But then winter arrives--ice and snowpack--and it's time to drive fast, in town, on the interstates, wherever! That's not something I've seen other than in MT and ID.

Utah drivers, now they're more my style.

Lastly, your comment did not spark a diatribe. Mine did, because that's what happens when you criticize Montana. I stopped being polite about it a long time ago, as the response from most other forum members will be defensive or dismissive no matter how the criticism is phrased or nuanced.

I would love to move to Washington, the people are great, the money is great, the cities are great, and the drivers are tolerable. [mod cut]

[NDak15]

Originally Posted by Montguy

I've driven all over WA state for the last two decades and never had these problems, but not living there would obviously make a difference.

But I respectfully disagree that Montana drivers are polite. The interstates are less of a problem than town and city roads, but these jerk-offs who obstruct traffic by driving beneath the posted speed limits are extremely rude and really quite dangerous. But then winter arrives--ice and snowpack--and it's time to drive fast, in town, on the interstates, wherever! That's not something I've seen other than in MT and ID.

Utah drivers, now they're more my style.

Lastly, your comment did not spark a diatribe. Mine did, because that's what happens when you criticize Montana. I stopped being polite about it a long time ago, as the response from most other forum members will be defensive or dismissive no matter how the criticism is phrased or nuanced.

I would love to move to Washington, the people are great, the money is great, the cities are great, and the drivers are tolerable. [mod cut]

Wyoming drivers are just as bad as Montana drivers. North Dakota drivers don't drive slow. My only gripe is that driving in a parking lot is a game of chicken. People will not yield here.