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OP, as you mentioned, there are many beautiful areas throughout the United States, and I encourage you to list them all above Montana, at least until you determine whether or not the highly communitarian nature of Montana towns would be a good match for you. Contrary to prevailing mythology, this is not a good place for individualists (if that's important to you), though this is less the case in a few areas with more varied and transplant-heavy populations: Billings, Missoula and Bozeman, mainly. Even these places, sadly, will have a loud and miserable Old Guard to contend with on just about every question of social and economic development.
I'm just saying. You don't know what you're in for until you've lived in this part of the world, and the blind, sycophantic pride that many people have for Montana (which is always rampant on this forum) can't possibly give someone a balanced take on things.
My suggestions: Colorado and Utah. Everything Montana has, but better! (And arguably prettier.)
OP, as you mentioned, there are many beautiful areas throughout the United States, and I encourage you to list them all above Montana, at least until you determine whether or not the highly communitarian nature of Montana towns would be a good match for you. Contrary to prevailing mythology, this is not a good place for individualists (if that's important to you), though this is less the case in a few areas with more varied and transplant-heavy populations: Billings, Missoula and Bozeman, mainly. Even these places, sadly, will have a loud and miserable Old Guard to contend with on just about every question of social and economic development.
I'm just saying. You don't know what you're in for until you've lived in this part of the world, and the blind, sycophantic pride that many people have for Montana (which is always rampant on this forum) can't possibly give someone a balanced take on things.
My suggestions: Colorado and Utah. Everything Montana has, but better! (And arguably prettier.)
While I normally agree with a lot of what Montguy says, I have to respectfully disagree with Utah. That state is practically a theocracy ( unless Salt Lake City is vastly different from the rest of the state).
While I normally agree with a lot of what Montguy says, I have to respectfully disagree with Utah. That state is practically a theocracy ( unless Salt Lake City is vastly different from the rest of the state).
I definitely understand that the systemic LDS influence in Utah could be off-putting for some. You hardly notice it in SLC and a select few other smaller cities, but trek your way deep into suburbia--and then live in it--and yeah, bit of a different story!
I definitely understand that the systemic LDS influence in Utah could be off-putting for some. You hardly notice it in SLC and a select few other smaller cities, but trek your way deep into suburbia--and then live in it--and yeah, bit of a different story!
Still beats the hell out of MT, for me at least.
Interesting. I'll visit Utah but don't need to live there. My time living out west has ended and I'm okay with it. Now it's my vacation spot. I can go get away from reality for a while but then come home.
To OP: As far as dating goes, MT, SD, ND, and ID are all states you need to bring your own girlfriend or spouse particularly in rural areas. In rural areas, most of the girls graduating from HS go to college and/or get a job in the cities. The boys tend to stay and manage the family farm or ranch. ND, before the boom, was so bad cities would bring girls down from Saskatchewan so guys would have dating opportunities. At 26, your dating pools will be mostly single moms and/or divorcees unless you are in Missoula or Bozeman where the universities are. There’s nothing wrong with that but some guys aren’t comfortable with it.
If you move to Kalispell, you need to have a huge sack of money to fritter away on girls who will wind up not being for you as well as housing and utilities.
To OP: As far as dating goes, MT, SD, ND, and ID are all states you need to bring your own girlfriend or spouse particularly in rural areas. In rural areas, most of the girls graduating from HS go to college and/or get a job in the cities. The boys tend to stay and manage the family farm or ranch. ND, before the boom, was so bad cities would bring girls down from Saskatchewan so guys would have dating opportunities. At 26, your dating pools will be mostly single moms and/or divorcees unless you are in Missoula or Bozeman where the universities are. There’s nothing wrong with that but some guys aren’t comfortable with it.
If you move to Kalispell, you need to have a huge sack of money to fritter away on girls who will wind up not being for you as well as housing and utilities.
Add WY to that list. The dating scene there is also dismal. I can vouch for Montana having a bad dating scene. Haven't really attempted in ND.
Have you researched the realestate prices? We left after 12 years because there was nothing affordable anywhere near any kind of work. We saw so many people come to town and then get sticker shock living in campers or crappy apartments only to leave again 6 months or a year later.
Montana is being invaded not only by Californians but wealthy Texans and a lot of wealthy from the East Coast. It's gotten so bad that probably half of the locals kids are leaving The Flathead Valley where I was at for good. When I 1st moved there in early 2004 nobody knew were their house keys were and you could leave your car running at the gas station while you ran in for a cup of coffee in the morning. Due to the influx of big city outsiders, the drugs and crime have followed them. The drug problem in Montana is totally out of hand anymore. The alcohol abuse has always been out of hand. There was just an article ran in the local paper yesterday that Montana is number one for the worst drivers in the nation. For what I paid for insurance I believe it. My commercial business owners policy which is a one million - 2 million blanket liability with all my trailers equipment and vehicle on it was $6700 with 1 truck on it in Montana and I pay $2350 here a year here in Wisconsin with a truck and an escape on the same policy.
I owned a property maintenance business there and made good money but as a business owner it's always a gamble how much you take for income in regards to the taxes you pay. I reinvested a lot in my business and only took a small salary, this affected how much money I could borrow for a property. For the last 3 years in a row before i left I added more and more income to my bottom line and payed more and more taxes just trying to qualify for a mortgage but the property values outpaced what I was adding to my income. After my girls graduated high school and decided they couldn't afford to stay I started looking elsewhere. I settled in far northern Wisconsin on the Michigan border. We bought a twelve-year-old 2800 ft² 5 bedroom 3 bath home on 5 acres with a 30 by 40 pole barn and a 3 car detached garage 12 miles from town and across the road from a Lake. We are in this for under 200 grand and if this property was in the Flathead Valley of Montana where I lived for 12 years we would be between 500 & 600k.
The mountains are romantic and everything but you can't eat this scenery. I thought I would miss it more but I really don't and I work about half as much as I used to but still have more money in my pocket. I used to work 7 days a week in Montana just trying to get ahead but work 5 days here and take time off to go fishing, hiking, ATVing and snowmobiling.
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful place to live but if you're working the whole time to be able to live there what good is it? We had our 1st real vacation in 12 years this summer in Wisconsin. Next summer we will probably head back out west and run the Beartooth highway, hit Yellowstone again, and go visit friends in the Flathead.
Good luck with your decision. I both relish and regret my decision to move there in 2004. I sure would have been a lot further ahead money wise if i would have moved to Northern Wisconsin and just vacationed in Montana.......
Have you researched the realestate prices? We left after 12 years because there was nothing affordable anywhere near any kind of work. We saw so many people come to town and then get sticker shock living in campers or crappy apartments only to leave again 6 months or a year later.
Montana is being invaded not only by Californians but wealthy Texans and a lot of wealthy from the East Coast. It's gotten so bad that probably half of the locals kids are leaving The Flathead Valley where I was at for good. When I 1st moved there in early 2004 nobody knew were their house keys were and you could leave your car running at the gas station while you ran in for a cup of coffee in the morning. Due to the influx of big city outsiders, the drugs and crime have followed them. The drug problem in Montana is totally out of hand anymore. The alcohol abuse has always been out of hand. There was just an article ran in the local paper yesterday that Montana is number one for the worst drivers in the nation. For what I paid for insurance I believe it. My commercial business owners policy which is a one million - 2 million blanket liability with all my trailers equipment and vehicle on it was $6700 with 1 truck on it in Montana and I pay $2350 here a year here in Wisconsin with a truck and an escape on the same policy.
I owned a property maintenance business there and made good money but as a business owner it's always a gamble how much you take for income in regards to the taxes you pay. I reinvested a lot in my business and only took a small salary, this affected how much money I could borrow for a property. For the last 3 years in a row before i left I added more and more income to my bottom line and payed more and more taxes just trying to qualify for a mortgage but the property values outpaced what I was adding to my income. After my girls graduated high school and decided they couldn't afford to stay I started looking elsewhere. I settled in far northern Wisconsin on the Michigan border. We bought a twelve-year-old 2800 ft² 5 bedroom 3 bath home on 5 acres with a 30 by 40 pole barn and a 3 car detached garage 12 miles from town and across the road from a Lake. We are in this for under 200 grand and if this property was in the Flathead Valley of Montana where I lived for 12 years we would be between 500 & 600k.
The mountains are romantic and everything but you can't eat this scenery. I thought I would miss it more but I really don't and I work about half as much as I used to but still have more money in my pocket. I used to work 7 days a week in Montana just trying to get ahead but work 5 days here and take time off to go fishing, hiking, ATVing and snowmobiling.
Don't get me wrong, it's a beautiful place to live but if you're working the whole time to be able to live there what good is it? We had our 1st real vacation in 12 years this summer in Wisconsin. Next summer we will probably head back out west and run the Beartooth highway, hit Yellowstone again, and go visit friends in the Flathead.
Good luck with your decision. I both relish and regret my decision to move there in 2004. I sure would have been a lot further ahead money wise if i would have moved to Northern Wisconsin and just vacationed in Montana.......
Those last three paragraphs especially ring true. If you're working constantly is looking at pretty mountains really worth it?
I definitely understand that the systemic LDS influence in Utah could be off-putting for some. You hardly notice it in SLC and a select few other smaller cities, but trek your way deep into suburbia--and then live in it--and yeah, bit of a different story!
Still beats the hell out of MT, for me at least.
It is still very noticeable in SLC, but not as extreme as the suburbs. I lived in downtown SLC for years and while it may be more subdued compared to Provo, it still exists in a way much more influential (obviously) than other cities in the USA and can be offsetting to a person who is not familiar with the LDS lifestyle.
To the OP, I have lived in MT four years. The best reasons I see for moving to MT are:
- to get away from crowds and traffic
- to immerse yourself in big unspoiled nature
- to escape governmental micromanaging
- to do your own thing and be your own person and not have people bug you about that
For everything else you seek, there are far better places, but I don't think there are better places if the things above are what you seek.
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