Leaving Lake Tahoe (Missoula, Kalispell, Livingston: real estate, rentals, vacation home)

[Snowballs]

I adore Lake Tahoe and feel very lucky to have lived here for 30 years now. However, in just the last few years, it has been ruined (IMHO) by an influx of folks with no mountain sense or common courtesy. It feels increasingly like the very DC suburb I escaped 30 years ago. Once-pristine trails are now mobbed with folks who freak out at the sight of an off-leash dog. [Welcome to the mountains, people. Have you met our bears?] Mountain roads that were fun to drive are now perpetually congested. And don't get me started on short-term rentals. I will never buy another house where this is even a remote threat again.

I've been looking for alternatives - a nice house with a few acres near Glacier National Park or maybe Selway-Bitterroot, but if these forums (and population growth maps) are accurate, I'm already too late. [Actually, Ravalli County has declined in population, so maybe there's hope. Or, should I be afraid?]

I'm not looking to move in and "improve" things. Just the opposite. I'd like to find a nice quiet place to enjoy the outdoors - snowshoe / backcountry ski - and neither bother anyone nor be bothered. And maybe meet some nice folks on the local trail who enjoy a chat and don't mind a very (very) friendly husky.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

[Cody01]

I am sure Montana will be less crowded than lake Tahoe but to many locals Montana is starting to feel very crowded. Montana and Wyoming seemed to have working together as both states just did a very steep increase in property taxes on home owners. Some areas just about doubled in taxes from last year to this year which is pretty damn unacceptible. I had always planned on buying a recreational property in the mountains but that tax increase made sure I won't be doing that. As a result I think it will slow down purchasing in the state. I don't judge people based on where they come but more about how they act and treat others. I have met and k own great people from out of state and in state as well as worthless people too. Statelines don't define a person.

[NW Crow]

If you have a population minimum and / or maximum for the town / city to be in, near or within reach, you can start to narrow the list, yourself and via recommendations.

Housing budget is an increasingly important variable for you to know or share.

I have no real basis to recommend Kalispell vs. Whitefish or Colombia Falls or Bigfork, or Hamilton vs. Darby or Stevensville, or more remote / smaller places without hearing your preferences for place size and nearness to bigger and cost.

But you can probably find somewhere in western MT to meet your stated priorities.

Your thread is started. Say more if you wish.

[509]

Snowballs....

Lake Tahoe is pretty special.

I worked for the Forest Service and while there are very few places like Lake Tahoe, they do exist.

The big variable is weather. Tahoe weather is pretty special. Your not going to find it very many places.

The second variable is that the urban cluster might be some miles away. So you live on the lake, but the cities are an hour away.

The easiest method to find a Tahoe a replacement is to check real estate prices. on various lakes in the west.
Expensive real estate, and you pretty much have a Lake Tahoe situation.

What was important about Tahoe to you?? The lake, the hiking outside the basin, or the urban landscape??

You can easily find two of the three, well except for the weather.

Buy the Friday edition of the Wall Street Journal and look at the real estate ads in the Mansions section. The journal does have lots of articles on mountain real estate.

Yeah, I understand you don't want to change the area you move to, but so says everybody that has become my neighbor. They are awful people, rich and feeling entitled to change my community to meet their needs.

I am getting chickens and a noisy rooster, while I am still outside the city limits to protest their lights at night.

Good luck, I would stay in Tahoe.

[NW Crow]

In another thread the OP states involvement with musical production, 100% from home.

Still on spec, I happened to look & see that Missoula appears to have 8 public recording studios, Kalispell 3. Irrelevant or a consideration for potential collegues and collaboration?

[Clark Fork Fantast]

A spectacular mountain lake. Mountain trails for hiking and skiing. Costco within a 90-minute drive. Not yet overrun. Fairly exclusive properties and secluded neighborhoods. You may want to take a look at Hope, Idaho, about 20 miles from the Montana border on Highway 200, 3 hours from Missoula and 30 minutes from Sandpoint. (Costco is in Coeur d'Alene).
Just to give you an idea:
https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...=srp-list-card

[Snowballs]

Thank you for the prompt and thoughful replies, everyone!

Originally Posted by Cody01

I have met and k own great people from out of state and in state as well as worthless people too. Statelines don't define a person.

That's a good point. I grew up an Army brat and have lived all over. Some cities (states) I've loved. Others, I've loathed. But none have a monopoly on courtesy (except maybe Tokyo - insanely nice people). It's well worth keeping in mind, cuz the last thing I need is to run from one problem into another. Thx.

Originally Posted by NW Crow

If you have a population minimum and / or maximum for the town / city to be in, near or within reach, you can start to narrow the list, yourself and via recommendations.

Housing budget is an increasingly important variable for you to know or share.

Around (or under) $1M would be ideal, but this wasn't returning enough hits, so my Realty.com bots are now capped at $1.5M. So far, I've seen some nice properties (e.g., 40 acres), but with homes I would best describe as "rustic." Clearly, you're paying for the property - not the house. I'm not opposed to a fixer-upper, but at 60, big projects are getting harder. And if I blow the wad on the land, it doesn't leave much for the improvements, obviously.

I wouldn't want to live in a town much bigger than this one (Incline Village, pop. 9k). Smaller is fine too. On the other hand, a Costco is nice - not too close; not too far - maybe an hour or two away?

Originally Posted by 509

The easiest method to find a Tahoe a replacement is to check real estate prices. on various lakes in the west. Expensive real estate, and you pretty much have a Lake Tahoe situation.

I don't need a lake. Just mountains. For me, it's all about the mountain activities: hiking, snowshoeing, mountain biking, backcountry skiing. [You haven't known real joy 'til you've gone skiing with a crazed husky.]

And I don't need "expensive" real estate. Lake Tahoe has some jaw-dropping homes, but that's outta my league. I'm more interested in privacy than luxury these days.

Originally Posted by 509

Yeah, I understand you don't want to change the area you move to, but so says everybody that has become my neighbor. They are awful people, rich and feeling entitled to change my community to meet their needs.

That's a big assumption, and I'm happy to say it's 100% wrong in my case.

I've been involved in local politics a handful of times in my 30 years here. In each instance, I was on the side of defending the status quo from the very types of people you describe. Frankly, I don't understand people who move to a place and bring their baggage with them. If things aren't good enough for you, why did you move here?! Go home!!!

And it's a mistake to blame this solely on the wealthy. [Your situation may differ, of course.] I have friends in $50M homes who are absolute saints. Not all, but some, yes. Where I experience routine conflict is with tourists and vacation home owners who seem to resent the locals. They're rude and complain about every little thing. And, again, don't get me started on short-term rentals. They ruin neighborhoods. Period.

One of the changes that chafes me every day is all the "improvements" made to our local trails. Once upon a time, you could hike a mile or two and find your zen. But now, do-gooders have added directional signs, mile markers, bridges, benches, and information placards (just in case you didn't notice the beautiful view, its historical significance, and ironically, the ecological impacts of man). There's no getting lost in nature anymore. Humanity, in its infinite glory, is everywhere.

But I digress.

Originally Posted by NW Crow

In another thread the OP states involvement with musical production, 100% from home.

Still on spec, I happened to look & see that Missoula appears to have 8 public recording studios, Kalispell 3. Irrelevant or a consideration for potential collegues and collaboration?

Thank you for the legwork and insight! I'm pretty reclusive in my work, but if things pick up, it could be helpful. And, heck, it could be a social opportunity too. I love sharing what I do with the neighbors. The local kids love the studio (even if they don't "get" my music). There's no accounting for taste.

Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast

A spectacular mountain lake. Mountain trails for hiking and skiing. Costco within a 90-minute drive. Not yet overrun. Fairly exclusive properties and secluded neighborhoods. You may want to take a look at Hope, Idaho, about 20 miles from the Montana border on Highway 200, 3 hours from Missoula and 30 minutes from Sandpoint. (Costco is in Coeur d'Alene).

Awesome! I'll check it out. Thx!!!

Thanks again, everyone. Keep the suggestions coming! I truly appreciate it.

[NW Crow]

With those criteria, I'd look a bit north of Whitefish.

And possibly south of Livingston MT.

If you want less pressured MT areas, maybe 5-20 miles outside Seeley Lake or property near Swan Lake (mainly for the mountains to the east, but possibly all the forest roads to the west could be useful too).

Some upscale but not as pricey as nearby.

All with big snowfalls, trails, access to nice smaller towns and reasonable access to bigger cities.

[Snowballs]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

With those criteria, I'd look a bit north of Whitefish.

Yes, that's on my radar. Flathead County has seen a lot of growth already, which concerns me, but the northern part of the county appears to be well removed from it - maybe too rural for the city folks (and no lake). On the downside, its so unpopulated there's not much real estate to choose from.

Originally Posted by NW Crow

And possibly south of Livingston MT.

Ooh, nice suggestion! This wasn't on my radar.

I checked out Wyoming on a tip, looked at the Yellowstone and Tetons areas, and was stunned by the real estate prices. So, I sorta wrote off the region. But, there's some gems here!

Thx!

[Snowballs]

Uh-oh. Then I find this: Study: Flathead County Has Most Short-Term Rentals in Montana