Montana Changing? (Billings, Missoula, Great Falls: how much, buying, college)

[BabyBoomers2]

Just how much is Big Sky Montana changing? Still have cattle ranches and PRCA rodeo there. Montana has it's own Circuit, so there must be plenty of rodeo action, right?

I have heard some "grumbling" about newcomers wanting to change too many things. Is that true? What about those that want to, or are thinking about moving there, that don't want to change anything. But, in this "day and age" is that even possible?

IOW, what is the bad and good-to-great about living in Montana today?

[BabyBoomers2]

Oh come on Montana folks, somebody has got to know if any, or how much Montana is changing. Heck, I'm currently watching a PRCA rodeo, from Lewiston, on the Cowboy Channel, and the locals look very nice. But, "looks" can be extremely deceiving, can't they?

[Shuffler]

I will say that on casual observation, places like the Flathead Valley are doomed.

Our valley continues being sold out to developers and raped by the excavators blade to accommodate all the people moving here ... it will never be the same again.

There's still a local rodeo scene, but for how long who knows ... those folks may not be able to afford to live here much longer as they're being priced out by the influx of newcomers bringing their money and suburban lifestyle baggage with them.

We moved here for my wife's career in health care, and it's proven to be a good move ... BUT, we do not like the direction things are going, and the future we see here doesn't align with what we want, so once she's ready to wind things down, we're out ... where to is the big question!

This urbanization crap is happening all over the West ... there are no nice, quiet places that haven't been 'discovered' any more, thanks to social media etc. And with mounting water issues facing places like NV, NM, AZ ... there will be that many fewer places for people to go, putting even more pressure on areas that happen to have water.

The future looks bleak when we step back and consider the big picture. Glad we're in our 50s and on the "leaving end of things" with no kids and no debts. Things are only going to get worse.

[BabyBoomers2]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

I will say that on casual observation, places like the Flathead Valley are doomed.

Our valley continues being sold out to developers and raped by the excavators blade to accommodate all the people moving here ... it will never be the same again.

There's still a local rodeo scene, but for how long who knows ... those folks may not be able to afford to live here much longer as they're being priced out by the influx of newcomers bringing their money and suburban lifestyle baggage with them.

We moved here for my wife's career in health care, and it's proven to be a good move ... BUT, we do not like the direction things are going, and the future we see here doesn't align with what we want, so once she's ready to wind things down, we're out ... where to is the big question!

This urbanization crap is happening all over the West ... there are no nice, quiet places that haven't been 'discovered' any more, thanks to social media etc. And with mounting water issues facing places like NV, NM, AZ ... there will be that many fewer places for people to go, putting even more pressure on areas that happen to have water.

The future looks bleak when we step back and consider the big picture. Glad we're in our 50s and on the "leaving end of things" with no kids and no debts. Things are only going to get worse.

But, just where do newcomers work, if they aren't yet retired? I don't know Montana that well, but do know that Billings is pretty big, considering the population of Montana, and with "big" most generally comes jobs. Billings has an International Airport that must employee many. Are there "computer" type jobs in Montana? I'm fully retired, so definitely not looking, but just wondering.

Currently we live in northern Colorado. This is our second time living in Colorado, and when we left in 2007, after spending 5 1/2 years 28 miles south of Denver, we could see the influx of California license plates coming in. We were gone for 11 1/2 years, back now for 3 years, and both don't like what the Front Range has turned into and the cost to live in a descent area here. After returning in 2019, we drove thru Denver and was completely shocked at the growth and still growing. There are those in Denver that want to National Western Stock Show & Rodeo taken out and put somewhere in the eastern plains, but that, so far, just isn't going to happen.

Montana is a beautiful state, at least that's what is told on a tourist website. Cowboys, ranching, rodeo, dude ranches, etc. The same that is advertised for Wyoming.

So, just who is moving to Montana, the young or the old/older as in Seniors?

[Shuffler]

MT is an amenities & ag economy, and some oil & gas, but not so much for manufacturing, tech, etc. Timber industry used to be huge ... and maybe one day it can be again (as it should if we want less fire and healthy forests, but there's BIG money in firefighting).

Who's moving here? Retirees, trust funders, remote workers, billionaires with big egos ... and the majority of those moves fueled by artificially suppressed interest rates and a soaring economy fueled completely by debt. That's all over, for the average person anyway. The ultra-wealthy exist in an alternate reality where the real world doesn't really affect them.

Rising rates, recession, and inflation are slowing the spread, might even send some back to where they came from, but the damage is done. Saw this very thing play out in CO, where we lived for 45yrs before leaving in '17.

The entire Front Range from Pueblo to Cheyenne has become an absolute nightmare and keeps getting worse ... eventually that will happen here around places like Helena, Billings, Great Falls, Bozeman, Kalispell, Missoula, etc.

[BabyBoomers2]

Originally Posted by Shuffler

MT is an amenities & ag economy, and some oil & gas, but not so much for manufacturing, tech, etc. Timber industry used to be huge ... and maybe one day it can be again (as it should if we want less fire and healthy forests, but there's BIG money in firefighting).

Who's moving here? Retirees, trust funders, remote workers, billionaires with big egos ... and the majority of those moves fueled by artificially suppressed interest rates and a soaring economy fueled completely by debt. That's all over, for the average person anyway. The ultra-wealthy exist in an alternate reality where the real world doesn't really affect them.

Rising rates, recession, and inflation are slowing the spread, might even send some back to where they came from, but the damage is done. Saw this very thing play out in CO, where we lived for 45yrs before leaving in '17.

The entire Front Range from Pueblo to Cheyenne has become an absolute nightmare and keeps getting worse ... eventually that will happen here around places like Helena, Billings, Great Falls, Bozeman, Kalispell, Missoula, etc.

Totally understand your reply here, because we seen the change coming to the Front Range before we left in Oct. 2007. Now that we've been back for 3 years, the change definitely isn't stopping. But, then again, the word "progress" just can't be stopped.

But, from just being in Cheyenne a week ago, we can attest, from driving on I-25 north and south, part of the way to Cheyenne, and back to Ft Collins, is still very, very open land. We seen cattle (Black Angus/Red Angus) grazing. Generally just past the Budweiser Plant in Ft Collins, going north, lots of open land still. And, from Castle Rock south to Monument Hill, still lots of open land as well and seen some cattle grazing there also. We were in Colorado Springs last week and, again, seen that "openness" going down.

And, we totally agree with you about "absolute nightmare and getting worse", but, with still a number of miles of open land, not the entire Front Range is going bad.........yet!

If we'd known how much change had taken place here, since we'd been gone, we'd never came back to the Front Range. We would have sought out someplace else. But, we do like to see snowcapped mountains and wildlife, like we seen in both Rocky Mountain State Park here and in Yellowstone in Wyoming.

[SilverBear]

Originally Posted by BabyBoomers2

Totally understand your reply here, because we seen the change coming to the Front Range before we left in Oct. 2007. Now that we've been back for 3 years, the change definitely isn't stopping. But, then again, the word "progress" just can't be stopped.

But, from just being in Cheyenne a week ago, we can attest, from driving on I-25 north and south, part of the way to Cheyenne, and back to Ft Collins, is still very, very open land. We seen cattle (Black Angus/Red Angus) grazing. Generally just past the Budweiser Plant in Ft Collins, going north, lots of open land still. And, from Castle Rock south to Monument Hill, still lots of open land as well and seen some cattle grazing there also. We were in Colorado Springs last week and, again, seen that "openness" going down.

And, we totally agree with you about "absolute nightmare and getting worse", but, with still a number of miles of open land, not the entire Front Range is going bad.........yet!

If we'd known how much change had taken place here, since we'd been gone, we'd never came back to the Front Range. We would have sought out someplace else. But, we do like to see snowcapped mountains and wildlife, like we seen in both Rocky Mountain State Park here and in Yellowstone in Wyoming.

Most of the pretty areas around Bozeman and the Flathead are nothing more than Aspen North now from all the rich and shameless that have their McMansions here.
Some just come up for a couple weeks during the summer or for a ski vacation, other's work remotely, but the personality of the towns has really changed. Bozeman went from a great little cow-town with an agricultural college, to a mini Silicon Valley with all the associated prices.

The biggest change I've seen is guys like Ted Turner or Sam Brokaw coming in, buying huge ranches. then locking them down so you can't access the forest service or state lands anymore.
They lock down roads and accesses, and the only people they allow to hunt on their places are their "friends" with big bucks.
The elk and other game will spend all hunting season on those locked down places, then come down on the neighboring ranches to eat their hay and grain, and the ranchers and Fish and Game haven't been able to do anything about it.
There are a lot of good places in Montana, but most of them aren't in the "pretty" areas.

[NW Crow]

Tom Brokaw sold a ranch 2 years ago, after owning for around 30 years.

https://fayranches.com/articles/two-...-become-one-2/

May still have other property in Big Timber and / or elsewhere.

[SilverBear]

Originally Posted by NW Crow

Tom Brokaw sold a ranch 2 years ago, after owning for around 30 years.

https://fayranches.com/articles/two-...-become-one-2/

May still have other property in Big Timber and / or elsewhere.

Still has one I know of for sure, but there's plenty of others like him that are still here.

[Zulu Kono]

Originally Posted by SilverBear

Most of the pretty areas around Bozeman and the Flathead are nothing more than
Aspen North now from all the rich and shameless that have their McMansions here.

"Rich and shameless"?
Why should wealthy people be ashamed that they're wealthy?
Sounds like somebody's had an unsuccessful life and
resents those who are more ambitious than they are.