U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Montana
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-18-2009, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 39,069,613 times
Reputation: 2147483647

Advertisements

I worked on a ranch between Wounded Knee and Batesland in 1973. I also saw the TV show. There are very few similarities between the two.

The 1973 uprising started in Buffalo Gap South Dakota. Then moved to Custer South Dakota and on to Spearfish and Rapid City. When those failed, it moved to Wounded Knee.

Dennis Wilson (Sioux Chief at that time) did not invite them there. Matter of fact, he was on the fed's to get them out of there. He knew they were too extreme to get a decent point across and wanted other means to be deployed. But the raticals (Means, Banks and such) wouldn't listen.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-18-2009, 06:36 PM
 
989 posts, read 3,295,542 times
Reputation: 638
In one of my early posts I wrote--

Quote:
Originally Posted by AQHA View Post
The American Indian Movement did not just show up. They were asked to come and help by the locals...

The goal of the locals was to remove a "corrupt" indian leader.
That "corrupt" Indian leader was named Dennis Wilson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
Dennis Wilson (Sioux Chief at that time) did not invite them there. Matter of fact, he was on the fed's to get them out of there.
Of course Mr Wilson didn't want them there, they were there to REMOVE him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElkHunter View Post
[Dennis Wilson] knew they were too extreme to get a decent point across and wanted other means to be deployed.
Mr Wilson didn't give a rats ass about civil rights for the Indians or anything else, he was not about that. He was about protecting his position of leadership at almost any cost. He wanted the government and everyone else to stay out of their business so he and his "Goon Squad" could continue to mange the area with a heavy hand. Its important to note that after the media and the government and everyone else left, several people came up missing or dead (this went on for 2 or 3 years). It is believed that Wilson's men made them "pay" for their attempt at his removal.

Now maybe Dennis Wilson needed to operate with these tactics to maintain control, that I don't know, but there has never been any question about how the 1973 Wounded knee incident got started, the locals were trying to remove Dennis Wilson.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2009, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,912 posts, read 13,759,307 times
Reputation: 3426
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQHA View Post
Now maybe Dennis Wilson needed to operate with these tactics to maintain control, that I don't know, but there has never been any question about how the 1973 Wounded knee incident got started, the locals were trying to remove Dennis Wilson.
I don't know anything about that. But bringing in a radical group to oust a bully is jumping from the frying pan into the fire, and if the radicals don't succeed, their actions may even entrench the bully's position since he'll be seen as defending the locals from the evil outsiders, yadda yadda.

I'm not sure what other options were available to the locals, but I'd bet bringing in AIM prolonged this Wilson's tenure, rather than shortening it. I'd also guess AIM had a lot of feelers out, looking for just such situations where they could arrange to get "called in" and far from helping, use the resulting incidents to enlarge their own power.

Nah, I'm not cynical, I've just been watching the activist scene for a while, and this is how it operates.

Last edited by Reziac; 05-18-2009 at 06:58 PM.. Reason: clarimudification
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2009, 10:53 PM
 
989 posts, read 3,295,542 times
Reputation: 638
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
... I'd also guess AIM had a lot of feelers out, looking for just such situations where they could arrange to get "called in" and far from helping, use the resulting incidents to enlarge their own power.
I'm sure you're right about that, in fact, as a previous poster pointed out, some of the locals there in Wounded Knee were probably part of AIM and encouraging the locals to call them in.
AIM would have come in saying they were there to take out the corrupt leader but planning to make it more about their own national issues from the beginning.
As it turns out Mr Wilson probably did come out stronger after it was over as the national government basically gave him their stamp of approval when they put him back in power after the FBI and others were done at Wounded Knee.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
4,034 posts, read 5,549,221 times
Reputation: 7728
The one absolute that I remember from that time, is that the majority of the indian people were NOT big fans of AIM. It was a minority group that backed AIM to come to Pine Ridge.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-19-2009, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,912 posts, read 13,759,307 times
Reputation: 3426
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
The one absolute that I remember from that time, is that the majority of the indian people were NOT big fans of AIM. It was a minority group that backed AIM to come to Pine Ridge.
Like I said... this was probably a lot more about AIM enlarging its power than about any benefit to local Indians.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 39,069,613 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Quote:
Originally Posted by AQHA View Post
In one of my early posts I wrote--



That "corrupt" Indian leader was named Dennis Wilson.



Of course Mr Wilson didn't want them there, they were there to REMOVE him.



Mr Wilson didn't give a rats ass about civil rights for the Indians or anything else, he was not about that. He was about protecting his position of leadership at almost any cost. He wanted the government and everyone else to stay out of their business so he and his "Goon Squad" could continue to mange the area with a heavy hand. Its important to note that after the media and the government and everyone else left, several people came up missing or dead (this went on for 2 or 3 years). It is believed that Wilson's men made them "pay" for their attempt at his removal.

Now maybe Dennis Wilson needed to operate with these tactics to maintain control, that I don't know, but there has never been any question about how the 1973 Wounded knee incident got started, the locals were trying to remove Dennis Wilson.
I worked with the residents in the area. They liked him. The radicals that sold drugs, started gangs, quit school, drew welfare, they wanted to roust him out. AIM didn't say a thing about rousting him or anybody else out. They're big thing was unfair treatment and that's what they pushed in all the interviews. Wasn't unfair treatment from the tribe or the chief, but treatment from the white man.

It's nice that they can write books, tell stories, and produce movies and change the driving factors to fit their needs "AFTER THE FACT". Makes people more sympathetic.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,912 posts, read 13,759,307 times
Reputation: 3426
Hmm. So, Elk, you're saying the real "problem" was that this Dennis Wilson wouldn't put up with scum and lowlife in the tribe, so the scum and lowlife clamored for his removal??

That could easily be reworked to "the locals wanted him removed", all right.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-20-2009, 09:54 PM
 
989 posts, read 3,295,542 times
Reputation: 638
I don't know if you are an expert on this or not Elk, but lets assume for a moment that you are. Would it be fair to say that most, or even a very large number of the locals sold drugs, quit school and drew welfare? Its not hard to imagine this as this is what we see in many of the modern reservations, and if this is the case then it could be that most, or even a very large number, of the locals had problems with Wilson.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-21-2009, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 39,069,613 times
Reputation: 2147483647
Like I mentioned. I worked on a ranch close by and the people I dealt with liked the Chief. Course these were hard working farmers and ranchers, not the riff raff. Actual numbers? I couldn't tell you. But at that time, Pine Ridge was having drug, alcohol, gang problems.

The working class were content. The riff raff didn't like him. But I find it interesting that nothing was ever mentioned about him or ousting him during that time. Banks and Means raised hell about how the Indians were beaten down, but they blamed the white man, not the Chief. Most of the people raising hell were not even part of the Pine Ridge Sioux, and some weren't even Indians.

Great publicity chance for AIM and after all said and done they tried to say why they did it. Or, at least a different story.

By the way, I'm no expert, and I didn't get this on the news at the time. Hell, we didn't even have a TV set and couldn't have gotten reception if we had. I learned from the ranchers and hands that I worked around.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Montana

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top