Sunday, November 1st, 2009: TEA Party Express comes to Helena! (public school, military)

[yyz1]

Originally Posted by organick

I don't trust any politician and def dont trust either of our political parties.

But from what I'm reading here, you want to give them control over the health care system???

[Rickers]

Originally Posted by organick

That is a complete false statement. People from canada come here for elective procedures not a by-pass.

I live near the Canadian border and almost every time I go to the doc for something, there are Canadians in the waiting room and I have talked to more than a few.
Some said they come to our clinic because they can get an appointment in a timely manner as well as better care. These are Canadians who choose to go to a clinic in the US just for regular doctor visits. Several I talked to come to our clinic in Conrad all the way from Lethbridge for every doctor visit of any kind.

[yyz1]

Originally Posted by organick

If they cured cancer or stopped letting us eat cancer causing food then they wouldn't be able to charge you for treatment drugs for 20 years.

I don't understand this. If I eat cancer causing food, it's because they are "letting" me do this? I thought I had freedom of choice? Are you saying that they should come to my house and keep me from eating certain foods? Or should it be the politicians? The same ones you claim to distrust?

[organick]

Originally Posted by yyz1

I don't understand this. If I eat cancer causing food, it's because they are "letting" me do this? I thought I had freedom of choice? Are you saying that they should come to my house and keep me from eating certain foods? Or should it be the politicians? The same ones you claim to distrust?

I am saying that people have this naive assumption that if its in food it must be safe. Yes ingredients shown to cause cancer should be removed (high fructose corn syrup for ex) What exactly is your problem with this.



Plus you missed the point of healthcare not actually being about health but being about the mighty mighty dollar

[organick]

Originally Posted by yyz1

But from what I'm reading here, you want to give them control over the health care system???

And I suppose you trust the like cigna and others who have increased premiums while decreasing coverage consistently? Does the idea of having your chemo stopped because you reached a maximum sit well with you. That is a death panel.

[organick]

Originally Posted by rickers

I live near the Canadian border and almost every time I go to the doc for something, there are Canadians in the waiting room and I have talked to more than a few.
Some said they come to our clinic because they can get an appointment in a timely manner as well as better care. These are Canadians who choose to go to a clinic in the US just for regular doctor visits. Several I talked to come to our clinic in Conrad all the way from Lethbridge for every doctor visit of any kind.

All reviewed studies on canadian health care show that people do not wait for important care, this is propaganda put out there by conservatives. Secondly look deeper some rural canadian areas have agreements with american doctors that are closer for them to access. The canadian health system still pays for it..




It utterly incomprehensible why people want to continue a system that has declined our health, increased our cost, and stabbed us in the back. While rejecting a plan that would cover everyone for everything at half the total cost.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by organick

I am saying that people have this naive assumption that if its in food it must be safe. Yes ingredients shown to cause cancer should be removed (high fructose corn syrup for ex) What exactly is your problem with this.

Do you eat honey? Do you think honey is safe, or maybe even has great medicinal value??

I have news for you... Honey is chemically identical to high fructose corn syrup. It's just fructose (fruit sugar) plus glucose (and every cell in your body uses glucose for fuel). In fact it is not possible to tell when honey is adulterated with the much-cheaper HFCS, except by which protein contaminants are present (pollen for honey, corn protein for HFCS).

Naive assumptions about foodstuffs should be tempered with a little knowledge of biochemistry, otherwise it's just snake oil.

[I was a microbiology/biochemistry major at MSU ]

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by yyz1

But from what I'm reading here, you want to give them control over the health care system???

Ironic, isn't it?

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by organick

It utterly incomprehensible why people want to continue a system that has declined our health, increased our cost, and stabbed us in the back. While rejecting a plan that would cover everyone for everything at half the total cost.

What, like the system has already demonstrated it can do? Here's an interesting article with a handy chart plotting Consumer Price Index vs health care -- note the divergence following the Medicare/Medicaid Act and the HMO Act.

American Thinker: Understanding the Cause of Health Care Inflation -- a few excerpts:

If one doubts the effect that government policies have on health care inflation, they need only to consider that health care costs are rising as a percentage of gross domestic product (GDP) all over the world - not just the United States. Hagist and Kotlikoff studied the growth in health care spending for 10 developed countries over the time period 1970 - 2002. The authors found that:

"Government health care expenditures have grown much more rapidly than the economy in all developed countries. Between 1970 and 2002 these expenditures per capita grew at almost twice the rate of gross domestic product (GDP) per capita in 10 countries studied: Australia, Austria, Canada, Germany, Japan, Norway, Spain, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States."

Other countries that provide "comprehensive" health insurance to their citizens only spend less relative to the US because they ration health care services through a variety of mechanisms and are tort adverse however; they are still facing skyrocketing health care inflation. So this leads to an interesting question, do we continue to repeat the same mistakes we and other countries have been making, which will lead to insolvency and necessitate rationing (and the implicit loss of freedom that follows) in order to control costs or is there another way?

The article also points out a study that concluded:

According to the authors, accelerating medical inflation is strongly correlated with a growing separation (wedge) in the medical market between doctors and patients created by third parties. Reform policies that increase this separation, such as those reforms based on President Obama's priorities, can be expected to increase medical price inflation.

If you can't be arsed to read the article, at least view the charts:
http://www.americanthinker.com/Figur...0Inflation.jpg
http://www.americanthinker.com/Figur...0Inflation.jpg

[yyz1]

Originally Posted by organick

And I suppose you trust the like cigna and others who have increased premiums while decreasing coverage consistently? Does the idea of having your chemo stopped because you reached a maximum sit well with you. That is a death panel.

Well, I was expecting a "Yes I do because..." or a "No I don't because..." Instead, what do I get? The same kind of pugnacious response that you've been posting here all along to anyone who challenges your utopian visions. I'll take your refusal to answer my question as an implicit "Yes, I do." You don't trust the very people you want to entrust with your healthcare. Fine.

I don't have Cigna so I can't comment on any of their practices.

What makes you think that the gov't wouldn't stop my treatment? Got news for you, it's about money for them too. When budgets get severely overrun, decisions have to be made. Who is going to make those decisions? This is the problem with utopians. They don't seem to realize that resources are scarce and you simply cannot give everyone everthing. At least now, I have the option of paying for something out of pocket. With a gov't run system, if they say I can't have it, then I can't have it whether I have the means to pay for it or not. Heaven forbid I offend someone's sense of social justice.