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Old 11-09-2009, 12:35 PM
 
Location: West Yellowstone, MT
239 posts, read 686,357 times
Reputation: 129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
With all do respect you do not have a clear understanding of what socialism is.

And I will again ask if you plan to collect social security, medicare, call the fire dept if your house burns, call the police if your car is stolen, drive on paved roads, use the public school system? or perhaps we should privatize each of those also so when there is a pot hole on your road you get a bill for 300 dollars, if your house burns you get a bill for 20,000 ??
I don't mind paying taxes for necessary services such as for roads, police, and fire department. I would like to keep my money instead of donating to social security. It troubles me that people collect on social security an amount totally inappropriate to what they paid in. My wife's parents collect social security and have never paid in close to what they get back. My wife and I have been paying dearly for over 40 years and don't expect to get anything in return. I consider social security another welfare program.

With all do respect? I did your cut and paste trick and came up with this. How do the philosophies of Obama differ from this?

Definition of socialism: "Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making, and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists"

 
Old 11-09-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Long Beach, CA
108 posts, read 266,117 times
Reputation: 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
I am saying that people have this naive assumption that if its in food it must be safe. Yes ingredients shown to cause cancer should be removed (high fructose corn syrup for ex) What exactly is your problem with this.
If you don't want to eat anything with high fructose in it, then don't eat anything with high fructose corn syrup in it. What is YOUR problem with this? If I do or anyone else does, then it's not your problem. LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE!! That's what all this is really about isn't it? You don't really buy into your own propaganda about "money, money money" and "profit profit profit" do you? This is about you and your busy-body, do-gooder ilk controlling everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
Plus you missed the point of healthcare not actually being about health but being about the mighty mighty dollar
No I didn't miss your point. But I understand that goods and services (which is all healthcare is) have an associated cost. You can either pay them or choose not to. This is true whether the gov't is running things or not. Like you, I don't trust politicians but unlike you I DON'T trust them to make the right decisions here.

Last edited by yyz1; 11-09-2009 at 01:22 PM..
 
Old 11-09-2009, 05:43 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,761,056 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post
Do you eat honey? Do you think honey is safe, or maybe even has great medicinal value??

I have news for you... Honey is chemically identical to high fructose corn syrup. It's just fructose (fruit sugar) plus glucose (and every cell in your body uses glucose for fuel). In fact it is not possible to tell when honey is adulterated with the much-cheaper HFCS, except by which protein contaminants are present (pollen for honey, corn protein for HFCS).

Naive assumptions about foodstuffs should be tempered with a little knowledge of biochemistry, otherwise it's just snake oil.

[I was a microbiology/biochemistry major at MSU ]


You obviously have no understanding of food vs chemicals and disagree with research done by medical associations.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 05:52 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,761,056 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyz1 View Post
Well, I was expecting a "Yes I do because..." or a "No I don't because..." Instead, what do I get? The same kind of pugnacious response that you've been posting here all along to anyone who challenges your utopian visions. I'll take your refusal to answer my question as an implicit "Yes, I do." You don't trust the very people you want to entrust with your healthcare. Fine.

I don't have Cigna so I can't comment on any of their practices.

What makes you think that the gov't wouldn't stop my treatment? Got news for you, it's about money for them too. When budgets get severely overrun, decisions have to be made. Who is going to make those decisions? This is the problem with utopians. They don't seem to realize that resources are scarce and you simply cannot give everyone everthing. At least now, I have the option of paying for something out of pocket. With a gov't run system, if they say I can't have it, then I can't have it whether I have the means to pay for it or not. Heaven forbid I offend someone's sense of social justice.

I did not answer your question because you are comparing apples and oranges. It is very clear that non of you have done even a single bit of research on how single payer systems actually work. You just hear someone say it is socialized and thats the end. The govt does not have a 30% overhead as insurance companies do.


I suggest part of the real reason you don't like the idea is because you stated that you have an option to pay out of pocket. What about people who don't? What about the 144 dead people daily due to lack of coverage? Also do you really think you will be able to pay out of pocket when your bills become 1,000,000 dollars for cancer treatment?
 
Old 11-09-2009, 05:54 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,761,056 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Doer View Post
I don't mind paying taxes for necessary services such as for roads, police, and fire department. I would like to keep my money instead of donating to social security. It troubles me that people collect on social security an amount totally inappropriate to what they paid in. My wife's parents collect social security and have never paid in close to what they get back. My wife and I have been paying dearly for over 40 years and don't expect to get anything in return. I consider social security another welfare program.

With all do respect? I did your cut and paste trick and came up with this. How do the philosophies of Obama differ from this?

Definition of socialism: "Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making, and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists"


ummmmm the us govt controls less than 1% of the capital

secondly the cut and paste is not a trick its providing info as oppossed to random opinion as many on here do.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 05:55 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,761,056 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Doer View Post
I don't mind paying taxes for necessary services such as for roads, police, and fire department. I would like to keep my money instead of donating to social security. It troubles me that people collect on social security an amount totally inappropriate to what they paid in. My wife's parents collect social security and have never paid in close to what they get back. My wife and I have been paying dearly for over 40 years and don't expect to get anything in return. I consider social security another welfare program.

With all do respect? I did your cut and paste trick and came up with this. How do the philosophies of Obama differ from this?

Definition of socialism: "Any of various political philosophies that support social and economic equality, collective decision-making, and public control of productive capital and natural resources, as advocated by socialists"


ever think they collect more because of inflation? 20 dollars now and 30 years ago is quite different.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 06:02 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,761,056 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyz1 View Post
If you don't want to eat anything with high fructose in it, then don't eat anything with high fructose corn syrup in it. What is YOUR problem with this? If I do or anyone else does, then it's not your problem. LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE!! That's what all this is really about isn't it? You don't really buy into your own propaganda about "money, money money" and "profit profit profit" do you? This is about you and your busy-body, do-gooder ilk controlling everyone else.



No I didn't miss your point. But I understand that goods and services (which is all healthcare is) have an associated cost. You can either pay them or choose not to. This is true whether the gov't is running things or not. Like you, I don't trust politicians but unlike you I DON'T trust them to make the right decisions here.

My point is that huge corporation own us thats my point. They produce foods to cause illness and then produce drugs to help treat them. Do you see the circle? It has nothing to do with do-gooder anything.

The fact of the matter is health care is a right. All the same people totting the constitution for certain things seem to forget what made america the country it once was. Our ability to take care of our own people and stand together. Now everything is about me. You can try to make your own false interpretations about my motives but you are incorrect.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,086 posts, read 15,112,627 times
Reputation: 3737
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
You obviously have no understanding of food vs chemicals and disagree with research done by medical associations.
To the contrary... food is made up of chemicals. Fructose is fructose whether it comes from corn, honey, or sucrose [fructose plus glucose]. It isn't magically different because the source is different. Same as alcohol is still the same molecule whether it's made from rice or potatoes (or for that matter, honey).

I always laugh when I hear the term "organic food" ... I want to know where the inorganic food is

As a reality check on how well non-chemists grok, uh, chemicals, and how easily their tinfoil hats get too tight, you should check out the efforts to ban dihydrogen monoxide.
Dihydrogen monoxide (DHMO):

* is called "hydroxyl acid", the substance is the major component of acid rain.
* contributes to the "greenhouse effect".
* may cause severe burns.
* contributes to the erosion of our natural landscape.
* accelerates corrosion and rusting of many metals.
* may cause electrical failures and decreased effectiveness of automobile brakes.
* has been found in excised tumors of terminal cancer patients.

Despite the danger, dihydrogen monoxide is often used:

* as an industrial solvent and coolant.
* in nuclear power plants.
* in the production of styrofoam.
* as a fire retardant.
* in many forms of cruel animal research.
* in the distribution of pesticides. Even after washing, produce remains contaminated by this chemical.
* as an additive in certain "junk-foods" and other food products.

Companies dump waste DHMO into rivers and the ocean, and nothing can be done to stop them because this practice is still legal. The impact on wildlife is extreme, and we cannot afford to ignore it any longer!

The American government has refused to ban the production, distribution, or use of this damaging chemical due to its "importance to the economic health of this nation." In fact, the navy and other military organizations are conducting experiments with DHMO, and designing multi-billion dollar devices to control and utilize it during warfare situations. Hundreds of military research facilities receive tons of it through a highly sophisticated underground distribution network. Many store large quantities for later use.
Bad, bad stuff.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 07:05 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
8,086 posts, read 15,112,627 times
Reputation: 3737
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
My point is that huge corporation own us thats my point. They produce foods to cause illness and then produce drugs to help treat them. Do you see the circle? It has nothing to do with do-gooder anything.
Ya know, you really oughta get your tinfoil hat refitted; it's WAAAAY too tight.
 
Old 11-09-2009, 10:06 PM
 
433 posts, read 260,396 times
Reputation: 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reziac View Post

I always laugh when I hear the term "organic food" ... I want to know where the inorganic food is

.

You do realize that you are laughing about the destruction of our planet right? Chemical fertilizers and pesticides are polluting the earth and causing tons of people to become sick.

Also your honey comparison is laughable. Please just google high fructose corn syrup and honey and see what you get. Perhaps the honey you are speaking of is high fructose corn syrup because of the practices of bee farms force feeding HFCS to bees??
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