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Old 11-10-2009, 01:25 PM
 
369 posts, read 1,383,666 times
Reputation: 266

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Organik says:
Quote:
People come here for optional procedures.
Yep, life-saving cancer treatment and child-birth are definately 'optional'!! I make up my information; where do you get yours? From Princess Nancy and Prince Harry??!!
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:59 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,622,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzfan View Post
Organik says:

Yep, life-saving cancer treatment and child-birth are definately 'optional'!! I make up my information; where do you get yours? From Princess Nancy and Prince Harry??!!

Right here is a research study done by a medical research professor from the university of Michigan. It contradicts your concept. Please read it in its entirety and then see what you think. I would be glad to read any legitimate source of information you have to support your side.

Phantoms In The Snow: Canadians' Use Of Health Care Services In The United States -- Katz et al. 21 (3): 19 -- Health Affairs
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Old 11-10-2009, 03:19 PM
 
29 posts, read 108,960 times
Reputation: 44
I saw sheriff Richard Mack in Helena and Eureka! I agree with Helena's Leo Dutton that the sheriff is the ultimate law of the land, not the Feds. Get DHS out of Montana! We need local law enforcement on public lands, not Fish and Game cops, ATFE, and FBI from DC.

Meet the Sheriff: Lewis and Clark County (http://www.co.lewis-clark.mt.us/departments/public-safety/sheriff/meet-the-sheriff.html - broken link)
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:44 PM
 
369 posts, read 1,383,666 times
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Organik says:
Quote:
It contradicts your concept.
That's a good study to be sure. But what they didn't do, so far as I could tell, is gauge the Canadian public's view of crossing-over and their thoughts on the adequacy of their health care system. Nor did they interview any crossers-over to ask why they did so. I recall reading a report by a Canadian Inspector General of some capacity this summer that fairly condemned inadequacies in the Canadian healthcare system.

Logic would tell you that crossing your border to seek health care, unless the system was primative, would be a rare thing because of the logistics, uncertainty and probable costs. I'd suspect that the vast majority, 95+% would muddle through and not go elsewhere. (I certainly would not go to Canada or Great Britain to seek treatment, but that falls out of the realm of logic.) That it happens at all would not be in the normal scheme of things. What would be an acceptable number? 3% of certain types of patients might be a huge condemnation of a particular practice; 5% of another might not be. The study didn't address this either; it does not establish a "norm" for crossing over by practice. I would also suspect some heavy politics might also be at play here.

The article does credit the American "system" to be expensive but innovative. That's refreshingly honest and reflects on a system that gives you half a chance instead of long lines and the rationing which they admit to. You will probably counter that insurance companies and Medicare already 'ration'. And I'll counter that neither, especially the insurance companies, ration the treatment only their payments. One can always try to foot the bill themselves in the tradional American way.

As I said, I make things up and don't have any 'legitimate sources of information'.
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Old 11-10-2009, 06:40 PM
 
475 posts, read 1,417,059 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberwolf232 View Post
You can't trust the government to look out for the good of all of us. Look at the stimulus. A trillion bucks to bail out the bastards that were causing the problems in the first place... I say they should have split up that trillion bucks and divided up and passed it to all the head of household taxpayers.. People would have been paying off debts, buying cars, and purchasing property. Of course the pricks that live off of the back of others disagree... For example what good would it be for a credit card company to not keep people paying constant monthly payments?.. These people didn't want to be paid off because it drops their interest incomes..

If I had my way we would completely destroy the corporate structure and go back to mom and pop shops, grocers buying from local farms, products made locally instead of buying from huge overseas outfits that don't even pay the workers a living wage etc.. and businesses that MAKE something instead of a million middlemen trying to make money off of someone else's labors. We need to simplify things and not let the Wal-Marts and Costco's price everyone else out of the market.

Small business is what kept this country great, and we need to take a step back and get things closer to home once again..

end of rant
Problem goes a bit deeper, you can't be a country of consumers based on bale out money. You can't allow Big Business to buy Politians through campaign contrabutions.

Than when those same businesses want to send the jobs out of the country, no one stops them, because the Politians accepted those nice campaign contrabutions.

People who don't have a job, or can only find a minimum wage job can't be consumers. They are spending their money on just trying to survive.

So... our jobs go bye bye. The Politians have no term limits. And they also collect their salary for life. They don't fight for the Voters who put them there, their loyalty is to all those big corporations that bought them.

Our Senators and Congressman were voted into Office to serve us, the American people, but instead they fight each other, regardless of the issues. If you are a Republican the Democrat is wrong and his bill must fail. If you are a Democrat the Republican's got us in this mess and they are wrong.

I want to know who is fighting for us? It sure isn't the Politicians.

If you are an American Company, you better employ Americans. If you need help using American Tax dollars you better be employing Americans.

The Banks were given money to bale them out, are they loaning out the money. Seems like they are making it harder to borrow and raising insterests on credit cards to rates that would make a Loan Shark smile.

End of rant.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:12 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,622,054 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzfan View Post
Organik says:


. You will probably counter that insurance companies and Medicare already 'ration'. And I'll counter that neither, especially the insurance companies, ration the treatment only their payments. One can always try to foot the bill themselves in the tradional American way.

As I said, I make things up and don't have any 'legitimate sources of information'.

That is not true though, they deny coverage and without coverage or proof of being able to make payment the only care you will get is that necessary to keep you alive in traumatic situations. You can not just say I need a transplant and will figure out my bill. You can't even get on a donor list. Just as you will be denied care from specialist, chemo treatment etc without proof you can pay. The vast majority of uninsured americans simply do not have the ability to "foot the bill the traditional American way" especially when faced with medical problems. That is an unrealistic approach.


The study shows that the crossing is mearly a handful of people and not hoards. I know that probably no research is without politics but this was funded by a research grant and not a private industry. They tend to be more independent as do studies done by major universities due their reputations.
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Old 11-10-2009, 07:21 PM
 
2,087 posts, read 1,622,054 times
Reputation: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedsmit View Post
Problem goes a bit deeper, you can't be a country of consumers based on bale out money. You can't allow Big Business to buy Politians through campaign contrabutions.

Than when those same businesses want to send the jobs out of the country, no one stops them, because the Politians accepted those nice campaign contrabutions.

People who don't have a job, or can only find a minimum wage job can't be consumers. They are spending their money on just trying to survive.

So... our jobs go bye bye. The Politians have no term limits. And they also collect their salary for life. They don't fight for the Voters who put them there, their loyalty is to all those big corporations that bought them.

Our Senators and Congressman were voted into Office to serve us, the American people, but instead they fight each other, regardless of the issues. If you are a Republican the Democrat is wrong and his bill must fail. If you are a Democrat the Republican's got us in this mess and they are wrong.

I want to know who is fighting for us? It sure isn't the Politicians.

If you are an American Company, you better employ Americans. If you need help using American Tax dollars you better be employing Americans.

The Banks were given money to bale them out, are they loaning out the money. Seems like they are making it harder to borrow and raising insterests on credit cards to rates that would make a Loan Shark smile.

End of rant.

very true we bailed out the banks and they raised out credit card interest. I just heard the other day that every car company except ford said they probably will not be able to pay back the money because they will file chapter 11. We give handouts to the very companies screwing us because the upper echelon in this country all watch each others back and forget about us. Yes politicians are part of that but we have no other options for healthcare, big business has had its day and we got nothing but sick people and empty bank accounts
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Old 11-10-2009, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Brendansport, Sagitta IV
7,977 posts, read 14,107,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grizzfan View Post
I make things up and don't have any 'legitimate sources of information'.
"It needs an explanation. Having none to hand, I feel free to make one up."
-- Lewis Thomas, Lives of a Cell

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Old 11-11-2009, 02:19 AM
 
475 posts, read 1,417,059 times
Reputation: 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by organick View Post
very true we bailed out the banks and they raised out credit card interest. I just heard the other day that every car company except ford said they probably will not be able to pay back the money because they will file chapter 11. We give handouts to the very companies screwing us because the upper echelon in this country all watch each others back and forget about us. Yes politicians are part of that but we have no other options for healthcare, big business has had its day and we got nothing but sick people and empty bank accounts
I have had to watch as my 77 year old mother and 80 year old father file for bankruptcy and have their home foreclosed on. Why well it started with Dad had a minor stroke a few years ago, and was too stubborn to go to the Dr. Than he started getting checks from the bank, he was retired, money was tight so... you guessed it, he wrote the check, from the bank, which was a loan. One of the first signs of Demencia is the inabilaty to handle your finances. Strokes can cause a condition called Vascular Demencia. By the time anyone knew what he had done, it was too late. Bank would not rewrite the loan, the house and five acres of land was not worth as much as was owed.

So they have lost everything they worked all their lives for. Before the first check arrived, the house was almost paid off. They are Retirees of GM - and they have also had some of their medical benefits taken away, and the balance is in jeopardy.

And it is not just them, this month there are 165 Sherriff Sales in their County, there are over 3000 vacant houses in the city.

Nice neighborhoods once owned by hard working Americans, are turning into slums. The gangs, drug dealers and Prostitutes have taken over. The uncollected tax dollars has now effected the cities ability to balance their budget, so they are forced to cut expenses, including lay off city workers, which include Police Officers and Fire Fighters. To date all Firefighters have made concessions and taken pay cuts. Two Fire Stations have closed, eleven Firemen have lost their jobs and more to come in January.

Why is all of this happening, well the Steel Industry went down the drain ten - fifteen years ago, and now the Auto Industry which employed a large number of people in this community. Their jobs were sent off shore because the labor is cheaper.

We have lost jobs all over the country due to this same thing. When was the last time you called for tech support on a computer issue and got an American? Electronics, Cars, Toys, Linens, Steel, - even our food is being brought in from other companies. The reason or is it an excuse; "IT IS A GLOBAL ECONOMY" I wonder if our American Flags are even made here any more.

Our Senators and Congressman need to REPRESENT the American public who put them in Office, and the first thing they need to do is to start fighting for US. And that means give us back our JOBS.
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Old 11-11-2009, 05:22 AM
 
Location: NW Montana
6,258 posts, read 13,937,661 times
Reputation: 3448
Amen,
BTW this is what I left in Oregon.
“Adams' Admission” | Willamette Week | January 14th, 2009

Salute to the fine troops who made me stand taller during the service at Ft. Hood.
to whoever the heck that was that hooted and hollered when the POTUS walked down the platform.
Disrespectful to the dead and families
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