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A few thoughts: I agree, MUB is a huge roadblock to modernization / development. I know of a project where they wanted to $540,00 to run a sewer line 1/4 mile into a residential development.
West side development is going to be massive, and I've also heard at least one billion over the next ten years. The wild card in all of this is which projects certain developers will legally try to hold up in court. If there is truly that much money involved with the west side there will be multiple lawsuits by Giulini and others.
Also agree, the proposed airport improvements will greatly benefit the area.
I thought it was pretty obvious that he was not making the claim to which you attribute to him, rather he was criticizing the high cost of a needed hookup. It would seem to be his assessment that the MUD gouges its new customers.
The problem as I see it in Morgantown specifically and Monongalia County in general is a complete lack of a centralized, engaged authority. There are too many little kingdoms built up there for real progress to take root. My family considered moving to Morgantown in the last three years and we have spent a lot of time picking apart the pros and cons. For what it is worth, we did the same with Charleston, Huntington, Parkersburg, Martinsburg and Clarksburg. We struck both Beckley and Wheeling off of our lists on day one.
the problems that we came up with Morgantown was the lack of control in the county. Slum Lords fester and everyone in government points to others and say, "It's there fault!" No one wants to take the bull by the horns and clean out the trash up there and there is probably more of that sort of trash in Morgantown than in all of the rest of the state combined. You guys up there have a serious problem but do not see it for the severity it is. This is like getting used to a closed up house that stinks of animal droppings, mold and trash once you are in there long enough, but let someone try to come in from outside and they think their face has melted off.
Zoning, if it exist is beyond my comprehension. Morgantown seems to be experiencing rampant and uncontrolled growth and that always leads to urban decay. A city has to be made up of elements the are interdependent and osmotic in their benefits to neighboring sectors. Morgantown has none of that and people who have lived in more centralized controlled cities will take one look at the "hillbilly add-on" method of expansion up there and make other choices.
There is certainly some truth to what you're saying, but I disagree with the notion that we have more trash than everyone else combined. What we have is related to slum lords who have existed for decades and not maintained their properties properly. There is movement afoot to deal with that problem, but it won't happen overnight. Still, those properties are generally occupied because the demand to live here is strong. Most of the other cities of note in our state have distressed properties as well, but the difference is theirs is not occupied. It was built when those cities had considerable larger populations, and as populations declined, properties sat vacant and fell into even more serious disrepair. Huntington has made some progress in dealing with this problem, and personally I believe their mayor to be among the best leaders in the state. Nobody has done more with what he has with which to work than has he. Charleston has not made as many positive strides in that fashion.
I'm not sure why you crossed Wheeling off your list, but you might have acted too quickly. That city is enjoying a rebirth of sorts, especially in the downtown area, as they have found investors who are stepping to the plate and building very nice loft apartments in that area. That area also has, arguably the world's best municipal park system. No city in our state has the amount of beautiful, historic properties that you will find in Wheeling.
As to our growth in Mon County, some of your points are valid and recognized here, but it is not really accurate to use data from so far ago to match the current dynamics in play here. I agree with the part about infrastructure, and that is the state's fault for not keeping up with demand, but the growth is taking place anyway. It shows no signs of slowing down. It is expanding to hilltops, out hollows, to nearby Cheat Lake, and westward to previously more rural areas, some of them next to Interstates. You are correct about no centralized control, but we are really no different in that regard than any other part of our state. We do not have "metro" governments in West Virginia, and every area has it's numerous communities, each with it's own fiefdom. That is not going to change any time soon.
You are right about limited geography in the city limits (there are just 10 square miles that have 55,000 crammed into living in them 10 months per year) so most of the development is taking place outside of city limits. It is really the county that is growing more than the city.
The reason the growth is more likely to accelerate than stagnate include these... the presence of a far more diversified economy than in the past, a comparatively young and well educated work force, proximity to large population centers, research growth at WVU which is moving to new levels due to the research intensive designation received last year, a medical establishment that is in serious growth mode and continuing to expand, the presence of a national Land Grant institution in growth mode with a supportive alumni base, a large pharma company that employs thousands in well paying jobs, and even a coal industry that looks to rebound in the coming years. We also have an outstanding array of outdoor venues basically right out our back door that are starting to be better developed and protected.
Nobody is going to slow down the Eastern Panhandle growth from DC/Baltimore spillover, but aside from that we have the most potential for growth in our state. It isn't even close. There are still plenty of nice areas to move to and live in, in our area. Most of them are not in the city limits. Most believe that areas between Morgantown and Fairmont will see significant develop moving forward, especially since their is much recent development West of I-79.
There is certainly some truth to what you're saying, but I disagree with the notion that we have more trash than everyone else combined. What we have is related to slum lords who have existed for decades and not maintained their properties properly. There is movement afoot to deal with that problem, but it won't happen overnight. Still, those properties are generally occupied because the demand to live here is strong. Most of the other cities of note in our state have distressed properties as well, but the difference is theirs is not occupied. It was built when those cities had considerable larger populations, and as populations declined, properties sat vacant and fell into even more serious disrepair. Huntington has made some progress in dealing with this problem, and personally I believe their mayor to be among the best leaders in the state. Nobody has done more with what he has with which to work than has he. Charleston has not made as many positive strides in that fashion.
I'm not sure why you crossed Wheeling off your list, but you might have acted too quickly. That city is enjoying a rebirth of sorts, especially in the downtown area, as they have found investors who are stepping to the plate and building very nice loft apartments in that area. That area also has, arguably the world's best municipal park system. No city in our state has the amount of beautiful, historic properties that you will find in Wheeling.
As to our growth in Mon County, some of your points are valid and recognized here, but it is not really accurate to use data from so far ago to match the current dynamics in play here. I agree with the part about infrastructure, and that is the state's fault for not keeping up with demand, but the growth is taking place anyway. It shows no signs of slowing down. It is expanding to hilltops, out hollows, to nearby Cheat Lake, and westward to previously more rural areas, some of them next to Interstates. You are correct about no centralized control, but we are really no different in that regard than any other part of our state. We do not have "metro" governments in West Virginia, and every area has it's numerous communities, each with it's own fiefdom. That is not going to change any time soon.
You are right about limited geography in the city limits (there are just 10 square miles that have 55,000 crammed into living in them 10 months per year) so most of the development is taking place outside of city limits. It is really the county that is growing more than the city.
The reason the growth is more likely to accelerate than stagnate include these... the presence of a far more diversified economy than in the past, a comparatively young and well educated work force, proximity to large population centers, research growth at WVU which is moving to new levels due to the research intensive designation received last year, a medical establishment that is in serious growth mode and continuing to expand, the presence of a national Land Grant institution in growth mode with a supportive alumni base, a large pharma company that employs thousands in well paying jobs, and even a coal industry that looks to rebound in the coming years. We also have an outstanding array of outdoor venues basically right out our back door that are starting to be better developed and protected.
Nobody is going to slow down the Eastern Panhandle growth from DC/Baltimore spillover, but aside from that we have the most potential for growth in our state. It isn't even close. There are still plenty of nice areas to move to and live in, in our area. Most of them are not in the city limits. Most believe that areas between Morgantown and Fairmont will see significant develop moving forward, especially since their is much recent development West of I-79.
First let set out that we 'wanted' Morgantown to win our selection as it has so many of the things on our checklist with the exception of a real shopping destination. Morgantown has some retail centers but for those that have lived in larger cities, when I say shopping destination I mean one that runs a mile in any direction, centered on a large vibrant mall that is sitting next to 2 or 3 huge strip centers and of course the multitude of eateries and boutiques. We have nothing like that in West Virginia and some places have better ones than does Morgantown, but not by much.
There are slum lords in every city but for those cities, other than Morgantown - there are other options and more importantly, slum lords are not setting the price point. I saw a new development start up in Morgantown last year, can't recall its name. The units were nice but compared to what I saw in other cities like Atlanta, Miami, Cincinnati and Austin Texas they were at best, ho hum. but their prices were certainly not ho hum. They were eye watering! This is because the slumlords jack their prices just under those nicer properties because only so many people can afford them and they suck up the rest. As each new development comes on the market, the price point creeps higher.
As a staunch free-market capitalist I am loathe to enact laws and regulation on any private businesses and I do not think that is the answer here. The city needs to tighten their ordnances and then apply them - harshly! Here is the rub though, those same people that can make those decisions often have a conflict of interests because they have a stake in one or more those over-priced properties either because they own it directly or indirectly or act as legal representation for those that do. As I said earlier...POLITCIS and CORRUPTION.
Those were the reason we eventually scratched Morgantown off of the list in spite of wanting it to win so much.
Wheeling, hmmm, I don't see the draw to it. If I was born there I might feel differently but for someone that has been there a dozen times or so, it stands out in no way shape of form. The people there are probably why I don't think much of the town. They have the same mentality as those in Lewisburg: "Hey, YOU, stranger, do you know how lucky you are to be here and breath the air I am exhaling?" If I want that sort of reaction I can go to Pittsburgh and get it in abundance. Beckley has it too.
If you are from those three towns, you are in like Flynn, if not well, you should count yourself lucky as you try to figure out what all of the fuss is for dead river town that thinks it is the new Eldorado.
I am not trying to be offensive about the state of the slum lord activity and intensity levels in Morgantown, but it is perhaps not possible for someone to live there to fairly evaluate the conditions for the analogy I alluded too earlier. Where we live tends to get a pass for its flaws because it is our home but how that same place looks to others that might move there is often different and usually not as rosy as we see it.
In the end, despite all of the pluses with Morgantown we determine it was not worth the aggravation and frustration it would require to live there, even if we lived outside of the city proper. As you are aware, I have a tender spot in my heart for the bulldozer and 90% of every West Virginia would be rubble if I had carte blanche, Morgantown is no exception. Of all of the major towns in WV, it has to have the worst set up downtown out there and it is probably the ugliest in my opinion although Beckley is pretty ugly too. It looks dirty, unsafe, loud and congested and when you stare out the layout you have to ask if drunkards laid out the roads at night. In some towns that sort of set up is charming but in Morgantown it is just chaos.
Zoning, if it exist is beyond my comprehension. Morgantown seems to be experiencing rampant and uncontrolled growth and that always leads to urban decay. A city has to be made up of elements the are interdependent and osmotic in their benefits to neighboring sectors. Morgantown has none of that and people who have lived in more centralized controlled cities will take one look at the "hillbilly add-on" method of expansion up there and make other choices.
There is almost no zoning in the county and only the city requires building permits. That means during the building process there is NO inspection whatsoever - (other than electric hookup which is a state requirement). I know people in the construction business and even out of state builders can't believe it is this lax. To anyone who doesn't like the permit and inspection process; believe me it protects the homeowner.
It has gotten so bad that there is an entire "sub construction" business being created here to fix other developers work!. One development has houses sinking 6 inches + after sale due the footers being put in improperly and in winter no less! This is costing homeowners a fortune. Doors, windows don't fit, cabinetry is not square. Numerous places have hardwood floors buckling as they were put in when it was too cold. Entire roofs put on wrong that leak later - again, no one is checking anything
I could go on and on...but suffice it to say whenever you have this much development happening this quickly and popping up everywhere, there IS a price to pay. Unfortunately it's the homeowner who finds this out later and has to pay for the corrections. Some have pursued litigation, but again that is time consuming and costly.
You mentioned urban decay and that is already happening. West Run Road has all new homes built in the 2000's and they are already considered "low income housing". There isn't even a proper road to get there.
You also used the term "hillbilly add-on" method, I have heard it called the "wild west" here too. LOL
There is almost no zoning in the county and only the city requires building permits. That means during the building process there is NO inspection whatsoever - (other than electric hookup which is a state requirement). I know people in the construction business and even out of state builders can't believe it is this lax. To anyone who doesn't like the permit and inspection process; believe me it protects the homeowner.
It has gotten so bad that there is an entire "sub construction" business being created here to fix other developers work!. One development has houses sinking 6 inches + after sale due the footers being put in improperly and in winter no less! This is costing homeowners a fortune. Doors, windows don't fit, cabinetry is not square. Numerous places have hardwood floors buckling as they were put in when it was too cold. Entire roofs put on wrong that leak later - again, no one is checking anything
I could go on and on...but suffice it to say whenever you have this much development happening this quickly and popping up everywhere, there IS a price to pay. Unfortunately it's the homeowner who finds this out later and has to pay for the corrections. Some have pursued litigation, but again that is time consuming and costly.
You mentioned urban decay and that is already happening. West Run Road has all new homes built in the 2000's and they are already considered "low income housing". There isn't even a proper road to get there.
You also used the term "hillbilly add-on" method, I have heard it called the "wild west" here too. LOL
A lot of the old guard folks here are against any development at all in city limits and seek a return to Barney Fife days, but I agree with you about the need for more standards in the county. One negative about rapid development is the tendency to seek shortcuts when possible, and demand makes those winter starts profitable so such problems shouldn't be so much of a surprise.
A lot of the old guard folks here are against any development at all in city limits and seek a return to Barney Fife days, but I agree with you about the need for more standards in the county. One negative about rapid development is the tendency to seek shortcuts when possible, and demand makes those winter starts profitable so such problems shouldn't be so much of a surprise.
Yes you are right, it would be nice if more locals who are "reasonable" could be involved in this decision making process. A good beginning would be getting some building permit requirements in the county. Even if they have to exempt existing homeowners who want to add a deck, etc. it would be a good start. (However, just something like a simple deck can be VERY dangerous if not constructed properly, but at least the homeowner bears all responsibility). What becomes an issue is when developers who are making a PROFIT do this and sell to an unsuspecting party. I feel permits are warranted then.
Many things in the winter CAN'T be done. Asphalt roofing - other than emergency repair - is a good example. All of the shingles will curl up when it gets warm. Feel free to check what I am saying and also talk to people who are seeing this poor quality work I am describing. I wish I was exaggerating but I am not.
First let set out that we 'wanted' Morgantown to win our selection as it has so many of the things on our checklist with the exception of a real shopping destination. Morgantown has some retail centers but for those that have lived in larger cities, when I say shopping destination I mean one that runs a mile in any direction, centered on a large vibrant mall that is sitting next to 2 or 3 huge strip centers and of course the multitude of eateries and boutiques. We have nothing like that in West Virginia and some places have better ones than does Morgantown, but not by much.
There are slum lords in every city but for those cities, other than Morgantown - there are other options and more importantly, slum lords are not setting the price point. I saw a new development start up in Morgantown last year, can't recall its name. The units were nice but compared to what I saw in other cities like Atlanta, Miami, Cincinnati and Austin Texas they were at best, ho hum. but their prices were certainly not ho hum. They were eye watering! This is because the slumlords jack their prices just under those nicer properties because only so many people can afford them and they suck up the rest. As each new development comes on the market, the price point creeps higher.
As a staunch free-market capitalist I am loathe to enact laws and regulation on any private businesses and I do not think that is the answer here. The city needs to tighten their ordnances and then apply them - harshly! Here is the rub though, those same people that can make those decisions often have a conflict of interests because they have a stake in one or more those over-priced properties either because they own it directly or indirectly or act as legal representation for those that do. As I said earlier...POLITCIS and CORRUPTION.
Those were the reason we eventually scratched Morgantown off of the list in spite of wanting it to win so much.
Wheeling, hmmm, I don't see the draw to it. If I was born there I might feel differently but for someone that has been there a dozen times or so, it stands out in no way shape of form. The people there are probably why I don't think much of the town. They have the same mentality as those in Lewisburg: "Hey, YOU, stranger, do you know how lucky you are to be here and breath the air I am exhaling?" If I want that sort of reaction I can go to Pittsburgh and get it in abundance. Beckley has it too.
If you are from those three towns, you are in like Flynn, if not well, you should count yourself lucky as you try to figure out what all of the fuss is for dead river town that thinks it is the new Eldorado.
I am not trying to be offensive about the state of the slum lord activity and intensity levels in Morgantown, but it is perhaps not possible for someone to live there to fairly evaluate the conditions for the analogy I alluded too earlier. Where we live tends to get a pass for its flaws because it is our home but how that same place looks to others that might move there is often different and usually not as rosy as we see it.
In the end, despite all of the pluses with Morgantown we determine it was not worth the aggravation and frustration it would require to live there, even if we lived outside of the city proper. As you are aware, I have a tender spot in my heart for the bulldozer and 90% of every West Virginia would be rubble if I had carte blanche, Morgantown is no exception. Of all of the major towns in WV, it has to have the worst set up downtown out there and it is probably the ugliest in my opinion although Beckley is pretty ugly too. It looks dirty, unsafe, loud and congested and when you stare out the layout you have to ask if drunkards laid out the roads at night. In some towns that sort of set up is charming but in Morgantown it is just chaos.
Grace, the slum lords are no longer setting the price point. There is intensive competition for student housing now and slum lords are having to start reducing prices drastically in order to compete. Since their cost factors are still low, most are still hanging on with reduced rents but the pressure is definitely taking a toll on them. One of them voluntarily removed several of his sub standard properties on Beechurst, one of the primary entry points into the city and is hoping to repurpose the properties. That is what needs to be done with all such properties.
There are several apartment startups in Morgantown, and like any city some are much nicer than others and priced accordingly. I don't know which one you are talking about here. I'm not sure where you got the information about slumlord prices being just under the nicer properties but that is not correct. This is a free market environment in housing, like anywhere else. Supply and demand is influenced by several factors... location, price, condition, etc. If the slum properties weren't considerably cheaper than the newer ones... some offering considerable amenities (swimming pools, game rooms, internally located shopping facilities and eateries, social activities for residents, busses to and from class, etc.) there is no way the slum lords could even continue to operate. The ones remaining do so with drastically reduced rents to offset amenities and offerings offered elsewhere, or they provide housing with no restrictions on activities and so forth, which does appeal to some students and others.
You'll get no argument from me about politics. It has turned into a disgusting situation all over our country with special interest groups holding sway most of the time. We are no different here in that regard. It is perhaps worse in West Virginia than most other places, but it isn't unique to our state.
We are not really seeking folks to move here unless you are a registered nurse. If you are one of those, you will find a check for $10,000 waiting for you when you arrive. For everyone else, we tend to believe our town sells itself but we realize it will not appeal to everyone. Some only like large cities, some only rural areas, some less congestion, and so forth. Enough want to move here that it is growing at about the level that we are able to absorb in terms of many factors, including our school system which is building new schools at a rate faster than we can really afford to have it happen. So come if you like us... move on if you don't and best wishes to you. We want residents who are happy to be here, and who will contribute positively to our city's development. Our economy is growing, so it supports a growing population but we don't want a bunch of malcontents or folks not happy to be here mucking things up for the rest of us.
Now... downtowns. We don't have a dynamic downtown, that's true. Most folks here want to keep it just that way. This is a college town, and we don't want High Street to lose that college town character. We absolutely don't want buildings higher than those already there to be built in that neighborhood. Part of what we consider to be important here is bringing back some of those 190,000 + WVU alumni for visits from time to time and they have to have something they will recognize when they come here. The University is a major employer here... more than 6,000 employees not counting affiliated organizations who employ many thousands more. Alumni are an important part of keeping that healthy and thriving. And, our students seem to like the traditional parts of downtown as well. I do wish that some of the property owners downtown would do more in terms of upgrading their properties, but somebody who comes to High Street now who went to school here in the 1970s will definitely feel at home. In part, this is why most development takes place out of the city limits. I think Motown Native hit on another part, which is a lack of regulation outside city limits and you mentioned the lack of space inside our 10 square miles, which is spot on.
Wheeling... hummm. Well, I'm actually a Wheeling native, so I will look at it differently than you do, but up until about 1980 it was easily the most affluent and prosperous city in West Virginia. It isn't any longer. The reason... they lost 10,000 high paying steel jobs and several thousand other jobs in affiliated industries. They lost the Imperial, Hazel Atlas, and Fostoria glass factories, which also employed thousands. They lost Marx Toys, and Bobbi Brooks clothing manufacturers, as well as companies who made toothpaste tubes for Colgate, and the stogie factory at Marsh Wheeling Stogies. Every one of those industries and jobs are the casualty of cheap labor, open border policies that mostly only benefit the very wealthy and continue to drive our middle class ever closer to third world status. There were 68,000 people living in Wheeling proper, and half a million more in the numerous surrounding towns stretching for 25 miles up and down the Upper Ohio Valley. All of those businesses are gone, and the jobs that went with them too. That entire area is a mere skeleton of what it was one, as is Pittsburgh, incidentally.
But one thing that remains in Wheeling more than anyplace else in our state, including my Morgantown, Charleston, Huntington, Parkersburg, etc. is Old Money. Although most of us commoners had to move on and find new jobs outside the area because there simply weren't any jobs left there, the mega millionaires involved with all those old businesses that disappeared stayed because they took their money and ran. In Wheeling, you will find a large contingent of very wealthy people.... people who own the Pittsburgh Pirates, and control the franchises for both Morgantown and Charleston although they license others to operate them. You will find primary stockholders for both Westbanco and United Bank, and the owners of dozens of newspapers in West Virginia, New York and other places.
Those old money folks are still there, and they support an amazing arts scene for a city that size as well as being pillars in an incredible park system that itself employs more than 500 people there. The municipal parks of Wheeling have skating rinks, swimming pools, 4 golf courses (2 of which are NGA quality) a public zoo, resort cabins and a top flight hotel for visitors, amazing public education programs, camps for youth in summer, lakes, a ski slope, an observatory, arts and festival offerings, 2,000 acres of basically manicured park lands with a well maintained museum and associated grounds, ...more than anything you could want in a park system. All of that is still there, and it is fully endowed forever. It doesn't have a "theater district" like Pittsburgh, but like most of the cities in WV it gets the traveling Broadway show tours, and they have a minor league hockey team. It is just 50 minutes from Pittsburgh so many folks actually live there and work in Pittsburgh. It does not have all the old industrial jobs, but it still has lots to offer anyone who lives there. And, it is making a comeback of sorts economically with the gas and oil developments, retail at The Highlands, and a growing number of eateries and housing options.
It doesn't have a major national university, but Wheeling does have numerous smaller institutions located in that area and, as I mentioned before, it is close to Pittsburgh that has a ton more of them. You get a lot of the benefits of living in a big city with either Morgantown or Wheeling, but few of the negatives. Okay, in Morgantown, our traffic is a negative but we are used to it and mostly know how to work our way around it.
Last edited by CTMountaineer; 12-29-2016 at 08:44 PM..
Well, read the article and was not surprised it was not sourced to back up the ludicrous claims and the author would appear to have done zero relevant research on the matter of which she wrote. The 2010 US Census stated that Monongahela County had 96,189 residents and by July 2015 it had risen to 104,236. That is an 8.36% increase and a gross of 8,047 new residents. Yet, if this author is to be believed the next 5 years - remember we already have one full year under our belt of those 5 is going to see the percentage increase by 500% to 40% or roughly 40,000 new residents!
I don't buy it. The county can only absorb so many new people in a given span because of existing infrastructure and absorbing 8,000 for any county in the state except Kanawha which an infrastructure surplus is a tall order. I would estimate that without an infrastructure growth this state has never seen to rival what took place in Putnam in the 80s and 90s and in Jefferson and Berkley in the 2000s is impossible.
Monongahela might add another 8,000 and I would find that shocking but it is not going to add 40,000 new residents.
I appreciate your careful read of my story. Here's a projection that supports that figure --
Mod cut: link removed, please read our terms of service and wait with links until you have at least 10 posts
Choose "2015-2040" and West Virginia; the Morgantown Metropolitan Statistical Area is at the top.
I updated our story online to clarify that that projected 40,000 increase -- from 138,000 in 2015 to 178,000 in 2040 -- is for the MSA.
I don't see 40,000 new residents moving here. Housing is too expensive and there are hardly any good paying jobs available. We already have 50-75 applicants per job in this area so any new jobs won't be enough to support the current unemployed plus another 40,000 people.
Well, the prognosticators see it differently than do you. There is enough upside to this area and enough nearby amenities to make this a desirable destination for many reasons. They haven't been wrong to this point... there is no reason to believe they will be wrong going forward. Doubters can doubt all they want, but Morgantown will continue to prove them wrong. Not only that, success here will spread to Fairmont and Clarksburg and the entire state will benefit from it. This area and the Eastern Panhandle are our state's best hope going forward.
There are always adjustment periods and ebbs and flows, but unemployment in our area is still low and we are in growth mode. There will be more job opportunities as they locate here. It is not just the status quo that will be available going forward.
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