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Old 10-02-2019, 07:01 PM
IG5
 
29 posts, read 16,072 times
Reputation: 25

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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam36 View Post
I find that hard to believe. I lived within municipal limits and had a very small, very cheap house ($100k assessment) with an annual tax bill under $700. Extrapolation of my tax payment to yours indicates that your house is quite expensive (4000/700 = $570k), in which case it would seem a bit gauche to complain about $4k in prop taxes. That would cost you $26k in taxes where I live now, so start counting your lucky stars. Agreed though, regarding what you get for the value.



I have a rental that we use to live in outside city limits with an assessment of 70-92K depending on the year and it's been $700 or above all but 2 years in the 13 years we've owned it. I'm not complaining about the taxes I'm complaining about the lack of planning, infrastructure maintenance and expansion. As well as not doing the above to attract better jobs for all. The OP stated the housing prices were high for the type and average salaries in the town, he is correct. The link I provided has 35% of people living in poverty in Morgantown.



My house is worth around what you indicated a neighbor just sold a while back in that ball park but I bought it at auction much cheaper and did some renovations myself. Not everyone has that ability, I have a lot of friends that are house poor in town with less acreage and square feet than mine.



I'd never live in a place that has as high of property tax as your state/city its just not a good financial move and there is no way the city/county is providing people with enough services to validate almost a 5% a year property tax.

Last edited by IG5; 10-02-2019 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:34 PM
 
1,363 posts, read 594,765 times
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Originally Posted by oceantide83 View Post
In a reasonable housing market, average home prices would be about 2.6 years of the average household income. In Morgantown, the average household income is about $35,500/year, so the average home price should be about $92,300. However, the average home price is about $183,000. So, yes, housing in Morgantown is way overpriced. I haven't found a good reason for it to be, though, other than a lot of people are willing to go into massive debt to purchase housing. The thing is, you never truly own a house even if it's paid off. Property taxes are not unlike rent in that you will always have to pay them. Stop paying them and the real owner will show up. In addition, you always have to pay for insurance and maintenance and it takes a lot more of your time to own a house than it does to rent. Honestly, I think all the fanciful talk about home ownership is more of a scheme by #1, real estate agents who want to prevent their profession from going extinct and #2, the government so they can collect more taxes (rent) from you.
It's definitely overpriced here for the average income. I agree with much of what you say, people don't realize how much it costs to own a home. Just maintenance alone never ends. Add ever raising taxes and it is all such a racket. However, by owning I will never be at the whims of a landlord who can raise my rent anytime he wants and do maintenance (if at all) when he feels like it. One bedroom apts that were $500 not long ago are $800 - $1K now. A paid off mortgage gives you financial security that's not going to effected by the local housing market.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:47 PM
 
10,148 posts, read 13,260,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IG5 View Post
I have a rental that we use to live in outside city limits with an assessment of 70-92K depending on the year and it's been $700 or above all but 2 years in the 13 years we've owned it. I'm not complaining about the taxes I'm complaining about the lack of planning, infrastructure maintenance and expansion. As well as not doing the above to attract better jobs for all. The OP stated the housing prices were high for the type and average salaries in the town, he is correct. The link I provided has 35% of people living in poverty in Morgantown.



My house is worth around what you indicated a neighbor just sold a while back in that ball park but I bought it at auction much cheaper and did some renovations myself. Not everyone has that ability, I have a lot of friends that are house poor in town with less acreage and square feet than mine.



I'd never live in a place that has as high of property tax as your state/city its just not a good financial move and there is no way the city/county is providing people with enough services to validate almost a 5% a year property tax.
There is some disparity there in terms of bang for the buck in property taxes, but that has zero to do with Mon County. That is the fault of a now deceased judge, Arthur Recht. In the early 1980s, there was a lawsuit lodged by one of the very impoverished southern counties that said every county deserved the very same quality of education system and their county lacked the resources to provide what more prosperous counties provided for their young people. Recht betrayed the people in his own county (some believe it was because he had been promised a seat on the state's supreme court), and ruled that a percentage of the property tax collected in the more prosperous counties had to be turned over to the state to be give away in the poor counties. In order to do this while not seriously impacting education in the better counties, Recht brought in a firm from Wisconsin to re-evaluate all properties in the more prosperous counties, effectively doubling their property tax burden. This way, he kept the education expenditures the same in those counties, but collected a lot more property tax from them. This was given away, mostly in the southern counties, and that continues to this day.

Property owners in northern counties are effectively paying for the educations of people in the poorer counties in the southern tier.
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Old 10-03-2019, 07:31 AM
IG5
 
29 posts, read 16,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
There is some disparity there in terms of bang for the buck in property taxes, but that has zero to do with Mon County. That is the fault of a now deceased judge, Arthur Recht. In the early 1980s, there was a lawsuit lodged by one of the very impoverished southern counties that said every county deserved the very same quality of education system and their county lacked the resources to provide what more prosperous counties provided for their young people. Recht betrayed the people in his own county (some believe it was because he had been promised a seat on the state's supreme court), and ruled that a percentage of the property tax collected in the more prosperous counties had to be turned over to the state to be give away in the poor counties. In order to do this while not seriously impacting education in the better counties, Recht brought in a firm from Wisconsin to re-evaluate all properties in the more prosperous counties, effectively doubling their property tax burden. This way, he kept the education expenditures the same in those counties, but collected a lot more property tax from them. This was given away, mostly in the southern counties, and that continues to this day.

Property owners in northern counties are effectively paying for the educations of people in the poorer counties in the southern tier.

Great information CT, this was before my time but after learning of this from you I was able to find the 1982 decision: The Recht Decision
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Old 10-03-2019, 08:19 AM
 
664 posts, read 925,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IG5 View Post
I have a rental that we use to live in outside city limits with an assessment of 70-92K depending on the year and it's been $700 or above all but 2 years in the 13 years we've owned it. I'm not complaining about the taxes I'm complaining about the lack of planning, infrastructure maintenance and expansion. As well as not doing the above to attract better jobs for all. The OP stated the housing prices were high for the type and average salaries in the town, he is correct. The link I provided has 35% of people living in poverty in Morgantown.



My house is worth around what you indicated a neighbor just sold a while back in that ball park but I bought it at auction much cheaper and did some renovations myself. Not everyone has that ability, I have a lot of friends that are house poor in town with less acreage and square feet than mine.



I'd never live in a place that has as high of property tax as your state/city its just not a good financial move and there is no way the city/county is providing people with enough services to validate almost a 5% a year property tax.
The taxes fund a lifestyle and ability to live close to work, yet not in the 'hood. My small city has great public schools despite having zero industry from which it can draw taxes. It's a tradeoff with the taxes -- the high taxes actually appear to be keeping the housing prices lower. Moving further from the city (to the land of shopping malls and big box stores, ick!) would come with half the tax rate, but houses cost twice as much, so it would seem there's no escaping a $10k annual tax bill. I see it as necessary evil to able to live adjacent to a city and not having to drive 90 min. to go to the museum/zoo/ballgame as with life in Morgantown.

Morgantown lagged badly on housing construction for a long time. When demand finally boomed from the combination of huge, concurrent growth in university, medical, and industry (Mylan), the supply was so far behind that it caused prices to drastically shoot up and stay up. It's important to note that people make their own bad decisions to be house poor. We aren't all lucky enough to get to live in our first choice of neighborhoods and homes.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:42 AM
IG5
 
29 posts, read 16,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam36 View Post
The taxes fund a lifestyle and ability to live close to work, yet not in the 'hood. My small city has great public schools despite having zero industry from which it can draw taxes. It's a tradeoff with the taxes -- the high taxes actually appear to be keeping the housing prices lower. Moving further from the city (to the land of shopping malls and big box stores, ick!) would come with half the tax rate, but houses cost twice as much, so it would seem there's no escaping a $10k annual tax bill. I see it as necessary evil to able to live adjacent to a city and not having to drive 90 min. to go to the museum/zoo/ballgame as with life in Morgantown.

Morgantown lagged badly on housing construction for a long time. When demand finally boomed from the combination of huge, concurrent growth in university, medical, and industry (Mylan), the supply was so far behind that it caused prices to drastically shoot up and stay up. It's important to note that people make their own bad decisions to be house poor. We aren't all lucky enough to get to live in our first choice of neighborhoods and homes.

The property tax is definitely keeping property values down as does rising interest rates. I don't mind driving an hour and a half to go to a museum/zoo, I have friends that live in DC, Philly, Trenton, NYC, Chicago, SF and LA and it seems we appreciate their museums and things to do more than they do. Most of my city friends (I don't think of Morgantown as a city) haven't even been to the museums or historical sites just down the road from them until my family visits and we want to go. I just wish Morgantown would have invested in their airport a long time ago not doing so has stifled bringing in some large businesses and allowed CKB to get the better flights to Chicago, Florida etc.



Agree on people making their choice to be house poor but you hit on part of the problem that Morgantown had been under building and the current developers are focusing on mostly higher end housing because the margins are so much better.
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Old 10-03-2019, 10:46 AM
 
10,148 posts, read 13,260,695 times
Reputation: 1782
Quote:
Originally Posted by IG5 View Post
Great information CT, this was before my time but after learning of this from you I was able to find the 1982 decision: The Recht Decision
This awful decision still adversely affects the more productive counties in a major way. In fact, those counties including Mon County are unable to raise their taxes to better the educations of their children without also sending just as much of their money elsewhere. The only way to make improvements is to pass "excess levies", which impose an added burden on taxpayers. West Virginia is an absolute mess with it's taxation system, like it is in almost everything to do with it's state government.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Arlington, VA
1,632 posts, read 3,744,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CTMountaineer View Post
This awful decision still adversely affects the more productive counties in a major way. In fact, those counties including Mon County are unable to raise their taxes to better the educations of their children without also sending just as much of their money elsewhere. The only way to make improvements is to pass "excess levies", which impose an added burden on taxpayers. West Virginia is an absolute mess with it's taxation system, like it is in almost everything to do with it's state government.
Is literally every perceived problem in Morgantown the fault of something in southern West Virginia according to you? It's a very unique viewpoint. Most people in thriving major cities would kill to have tax rates similar to those in Morgantown.
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Old 10-04-2019, 06:33 PM
 
117 posts, read 118,313 times
Reputation: 131
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Originally Posted by NOVAmtneer82 View Post
Is literally every perceived problem in Morgantown the fault of something in southern West Virginia according to you? It's a very unique viewpoint. Most people in thriving major cities would kill to have tax rates similar to those in Morgantown.
Maybe so, but they would have to take a major pay cut. Grass is always greener.
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