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Old 03-18-2008, 03:55 PM
 
Location: Michigan
21 posts, read 246,341 times
Reputation: 43

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I tried to use my VA option, but was told by my broker not to do it. He said it was too big of a hassle, lots of inspections and all, etc.. He pulled quite a few things when we were getting the house. Told us we needed so much at closing, then when we went to close, was about $3000 more, and he said go ahead and sign, no big deal. I said no way, and we walked out of the title office. A week later, he had a better deal, and the money we had before was ok. I've played game after game with brokers and banks for this house. Those were just a couple of things that went on. Needless to say, we don't recommend him to anyone, and he doesn't work for the same outfit now. I was wheeled and dealed with the best of them, and he knew we were in a spot, because our lease was up renting, and our previous landlords were selling the place. It was a dump, and we didn't want to buy it. We had property, so got a modular instead of building the house we had bought plans for. Now the thing is a piece of crap, and falling down around us, and it still has 24 yrs to go. I can't afford it, I'm lucky to get 40 hours a week anymore. There has been a few weeks we haven't got 40 hours. I work for an automotive supplier, and orders aren't there. It's been pretty bad since they went bankrupt. Not for the owners and board members, just the people that work for them. Sooooooo who am I supposed to be loyal to again? Without hesitation...MY FAMILY!!! So screw whoever thinks I overextended, because they are wrong. Things just all came to a head. Should I feel for the bank? No, because they would not hesitate to foreclose, if they thought it was in their best interest. Like Coop said, business is business, if not now, then when? If I sold you a car, and you didn't pay, I'd take it back. A deal is a deal. Would you think I was immoral? Probably, if you thought you had a good reason for not paying. Would I think you were, for not paying like you said? Again, probably, because you said you would pay. Does it change the outcome? Not one bit, because business is business. When you debate business issues with morality, it usually ends up being a stalemate. The two are seldom compatible, when handled by faceless individuals.

Last edited by kimnjim; 03-18-2008 at 04:22 PM..
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,319 posts, read 18,700,143 times
Reputation: 5764
Well after watching my savings interest drop to below 4% and our stocks go to hell, why should I weep for you good souls that walk away from a home because you owe now more than it is worth. Go ahead and walk, but maybe down the line it will be your jobs that are lost in this sub-prime mess that you have contributed to. Feel sorry for you. Not a chance. I hope it is many, many years before you can buy a single cupcake on credit.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 6,016,133 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimnjim View Post
I tried to use my VA option, but was told by my broker not to do it. He said it was too big of a hassle, lots of inspections and all, etc.. He pulled quite a few things when we were getting the house. Told us we needed so much at closing, then when we went to close, was about $3000 more, and he said go ahead and sign, no big deal. I said no way, and we walked out of the title office. A week later, he had a better deal, and the money we had before was ok. I've played game after game with brokers and banks for this house. Those were just a couple of things that went on. Needless to say, we don't recommend him to anyone, and he doesn't work for the same outfit now. I was wheeled and dealed with the best of them, and he knew we were in a spot, because our lease was up renting, and our previous landlords were selling the place. It was a dump, and we didn't want to buy it. We had property, so got a modular instead of building the house we had bought plans for. Now the thing is a piece of crap, and falling down around us, and it still has 24 yrs to go. I can't afford it, I'm lucky to get 40 hours a week anymore. There has been a few weeks we haven't got 40 hours. I work for an automotive supplier, and orders aren't there. It's been pretty bad since they went bankrupt. Not for the owners and board members, just the people that work for them. Sooooooo who am I supposed to be loyal to again? Without hesitation...MY FAMILY!!! So screw whoever thinks I overextended, because they are wrong. Things just all came to a head. Should I feel for the bank? No, because they would not hesitate to foreclose, if they thought it was in their best interest. Like Coop said, business is business, if not now, then when? If I sold you a car, and you didn't pay, I'd take it back. A deal is a deal. Would you think I was immoral? Probably, if you thought you had a good reason for not paying. Would I think you were, for not paying like you said? Again, probably, because you said you would pay. Does it change the outcome? Not one bit, because business is business. When you debate business issues with morality, it usually ends up being a stalemate. The two are seldom compatible, when handled by faceless individuals.
I have an idea for you:

1) Go buy a car that you really want, something like a nice SUV or sports car. Get a "6-month" no payment deal if possible. Enjoy the car.

2) Make a few monthly payments (optional).

3) Go buy another car.

4) Let the first one go back to the bank since it is worth less than you owe on it now. Plus, they wanted all their interest up-front anyway. (Do you know how loans work?)

After all, it's just good business. Looking out for your family, right?
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:22 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 38,097,810 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niners fan View Post
I have an idea for you:

1) Go buy a car that you really want, something like a nice SUV or sports car. Get a "6-month" no payment deal if possible. Enjoy the car.

2) Make a few monthly payments (optional).

3) Go buy another car.

4) Let the first one go back to the bank since it is worth less than you owe on it now. Plus, they wanted all their interest up-front anyway. (Do you know how loans work?)

After all, it's just good business. Looking out for your family, right?
Utterly different set of contracts involved...and a different set of laws.

And it happens all the time...
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Michigan
21 posts, read 246,341 times
Reputation: 43
Motley, you aren't getting the point. The job is going, and it isn't because of a "sub-prime mess". It's because the organization I work for, and the industry in general, have gotten very greedy. My company built plants in Mexico and South America, and already had them in Europe and Asia. They are also building another in India too. They then declared bankruptcy, and have steadily continued to close most of their plants in North America. The work these plants did is now in those plants. This isn't heresay, it isn't BS, I have seen the plants. There are a few a stone's throw from the border, between Mexico and Texas. They would prove out a process, gets all of the kinks worked out, and then ship it south when it was almost a no-brainer to run. They still are. I don't work for the big 3, I am not the one making $27.00 an hour buffing a steering column with a furry glove (have seen this). I like your buy a car plan every 6 months, and hope it catches on. Then maybe I can get steady full weeks. You say find somewhere else to work, no problem, LOL. Try it. Not in this state, and not anywhere close to what it takes to support my family. I am considered by everyone I know to be a very honest and hard working person, who always does the "right" thing. I'm the guy that will chase you down if you gave me a dollar too much, or dropped one. I also know how credit works, thank you very much. That was just an example of what I mean about the mentality that has been hammered into our heads since we were young. That is why some people are lower and middle class, and some are upper. The lower and middle class people are taught not to question how things are, just to accept them. If a bank does it this way, they are right and that is how it is. The rich kid is taught that us lower people have their place. If you find an opportunity to advance yourself, possibly at their expense, that is how it is. I may not be saying this exactly how I mean to, but you should get my point. Decisions are made in boardrooms and behind closed doors, and in the blink of an eye, thousands don't have a job anymore. I wonder how many Bear Stearns people are going to lose their job? I am not asking for pity. Just giving my two cents on the OP's question. There has to be two sides to have a debate. So far I haven't walked away from anything in my life, but I'm not convinced it isn't time to start. I think I'd rather pay cash for that cupcake anyway, you know it is a poor choice to put something as consumable as that on credit...
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:23 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 38,097,810 times
Reputation: 2661
A very neat exposition on the mortgage mess.

http://www.blownmortgage.com/files/presentation3-2008.pdf (broken link)

This appears to me to make it reasonably clear who was drivning the process...and the ancilliary people certainly helped.

I would think most of the victims hold the high ground when they walk away.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Michigan
21 posts, read 246,341 times
Reputation: 43
Oh, I forgot to mention, my company's bankruptcy was just for it's U.S. and Canada operations. They didn't want to mess anything up everywhere else. Now tell me who is playing who.
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Old 03-18-2008, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Boise, ID
1,356 posts, read 6,016,133 times
Reputation: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Utterly different set of contracts involved...and a different set of laws.

And it happens all the time...
Perhaps but either situation is still a comment on one's integrity.

(I'm not talking about someone who loses their job and has no choice. I'm talking about those who are walking away from a home they can afford simply because they owe more than it is worth at the moment.)
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Old 03-18-2008, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Michigan
21 posts, read 246,341 times
Reputation: 43
I am talking precisely the middle of the two. The person who has yet to lose their job, but it's dwindling down and getting close. Not the guy who jumped on the "sub-prime" bandwagon, with the ARM. The guy who saved what he could, bought what he thought was what he could afford, and at the time it was, and has been paying on for years. Should I kill myself and make this work? Meaning whatever jobs I have to work at the same time, whatever my family has to do without, etc.. Or, should I cut my losses, and start over?
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:21 PM
 
Location: Florida
83 posts, read 382,083 times
Reputation: 29
I think these posts are very interesting in when the posters reveal their age's that usually if they are older, they talk about staying and how you make your payment no matter what, and younger people tend to say maybe I should just leave it.

I think it's a generational thing...I know for instance graduates of colleges these days are predicted to hold about 10-15 different jobs over their career instead of people like my grandpha who had 1-2 jobs his whole life...I think there is a correlation there..
Also I am under 30 and my job is moving me. I am going to try and do a short sale and see what happens.
I would never leave my home and send in the keys no matter how scummy I think my bank is...it's my name on the contract, and even if I have to owe them money I will do that.
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