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PotterGeek it takes alot to offend me But I actually do not disagree with what you are saying. I do believe in personal responsibility. However, there was an ethical responsibility on the realtors, lenders, mortgage brokers, banks etc. to provide complete and accurate information to buyers, as that is their field and THEY are supposed to be the experts. I myself was a buyer in 2004 and I could tell you stories for days about the types of things I was told about adjustable ARMS, interest only loans, future appreciation, etc. Even when I wanted a traditional fixed 30-year loan I was actually hassled about taking this route instead of utilizing one of the 'creative' financing tools. My response was to go to a different lender. However, that was not my first property. Many of my friends, specifically in Florida, were first-time home-buyers and are REALLY in dire straights right now. Stupid them for trusting people who had an ethical obligation to fully disclose the risks associated with their products. If I went to a doctor because I had a stomach ache and he says you need your appendix out, and I go to another doctor and he says the same thing am I supposed to then be expected to somehow have the knowledge to prove these doctors right or wrong? At the end of the day I can do research on the internet all day long but I expect them to provide me accurate information/treatments/diagnoses because that is their profession. Again, do I think homeowners are 100% blameless...no, but I also don't believe they are 100% in the wrong either and I would actually say many of them are behaving or did behave much less unethically than the lenders.
I don't mean any disrespect toward you, but your post reflects that you have a serious misunderstanding of the capitalist system. When you compare a salesperson's obligations to disclose all the possible negative consequences of buying to a doctor's responsibilities to look out for your health, that shows that either you are confused or you are not willing to take responsibility for your own decisions.
If someone is trying to sell you something, they are not obligated to tell you all the possible negative consequences that may ensue. That is YOUR responsibility to figure that out. If you're not willing to be responsible for your own actions, don't enter the marketplace. It's nothing to be ashamed about to be too risk-averse to take out a loan for several hundred thousand dollars. That's just too much responsibility for many people, as we're finding out.
If you try to tell me that you and your friends didn't see a single media report or hear a single person that warned of a real estate bubble, I don't believe it. Those warnings were everywhere earlier than 2004. People chose to ignore the warnings. That is their own fault. Salespeople are in the business of selling things, not telling you why you shouldn't buy them. I don't understand how any borrowers really thought they could bank on all those predictions of future increases that people were telling them.
Sorry, but there is a difference between eating and biting off a hunk that you know will choke you...
I don't recall the government telling me I was entitled to have a home...and a tricked out McMansion with stainless steel and granite counters to boot....
Moderation. It's the new trend. Irrational exhuberance is so yesterday
If you don't believe me, go to the local Hummer dealership and ask how they're selling...
Excuse me !!!! 100% no money down , Stated income ( no Proof need)??, even we will even give you move in money !!! all government insured ???
CANON 1 Members should endeavor as professionals to place the public interest above their own
CANON 4 Members should obey all laws and regulations and avoid any conduct or activity that could cause unjust harm to those who rely upon the professional judgment and skill of the members
Code of Ethics for Appraisers:
Code of Ethics of The International Society of Appraisers, ISA, Renton, WA (http://www.isa-appraisers.org/code_of_ethics1.html - broken link)
American Society of Appraisers - Principles of Appraisal Practice and Code of Ethics - Table of Contents (http://www.appraisers.org/join/code_ethics.cfm - broken link)
The list goes on and on...seems to me that professionals in these industries recognize a need for a standard of conduct. Are you suggesting that because we reside in a capitalistic society that there should be no protection for the consumer? So maybe I should, as a consumer, find a way to learn every trade on my own so I never have to rely on the expertise of a builder, lawyer, doctor, mechanic, plumber, vet, dentist or any individual in a service-oriented field. Why would you hold one profession to one standard and not another ? At the end of the day we are ALL sales people, regardless of if we are providing a good or service, are a private worker or public servant, etc. etc.
By the way...it seems even our government believe that consumers are afforded rights in a capitalistic society. I guess they also have "serious misunderstanding" of capitalism.
CANON 1 Members should endeavor as professionals to place the public interest above their own
CANON 4 Members should obey all laws and regulations and avoid any conduct or activity that could cause unjust harm to those who rely upon the professional judgment and skill of the members
Code of Ethics for Appraisers:
Code of Ethics of The International Society of Appraisers, ISA, Renton, WA (http://www.isa-appraisers.org/code_of_ethics1.html - broken link)
American Society of Appraisers - Principles of Appraisal Practice and Code of Ethics - Table of Contents (http://www.appraisers.org/join/code_ethics.cfm - broken link)
The list goes on and on...seems to me that professionals in these industries recognize a need for a standard of conduct. Are you suggesting that because we reside in a capitalistic society that there should be no protection for the consumer? So maybe I should, as a consumer, find a way to learn every trade on my own so I never have to rely on the expertise of a builder, lawyer, doctor, mechanic, plumber, vet, dentist or any individual in a service-oriented field. Why would you hold one profession to one standard and not another ? At the end of the day we are ALL sales people, regardless of if we are providing a good or service, are a private worker or public servant, etc. etc.
You should take a class on advertising. Puffing is not against the law. Look into it and it may help you protect yourself from yourself in the future.
Neither is walking away from mortgages that were written and sold as a result of "puffing".
No, but that will follow you around. There will likely be applications to fill out in the future that ask whether you have ever been foreclosed on. You will never ever be able to answer 'no' again.
To compare defaulting on a mortgage to giving someone your opinion (which is what puffing is) gets you nowhere. But I suppose you already knew that but didn't have anything more productive to say.
Location: Halfway between Number 4 Privet Drive and Forks, WA
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LOL, the people on this thread "get it." //www.city-data.com/forum/real-...ncome-get.html Read their posts. The lenders told them they were qualified for alot more than they were wanting to spend, yet somehow, they spent wayyy less. Looks like common sense rules the majority.
At the end of the day, no one held a gun to these borrowers head and made them buy a house, much less a house they knew they couldn't afford. I'm sure they felt "entitled" to their McMansions and what not. The borrowers had the final say. Quit blaming realtors and lenders. I'm not saying they're innocent in all this, but the buyers had just as much greed as realtors/lenders and you cannot deny that.
(And another point, is, if your house has lost value, and if you don't have to move, it's not a realized loss yet. Stay. Pay your mortgage. Your value will eventually come back around. Why mess up your credit if you don't have to? It's not like you're going to be able to buy another house for less money if you walk. You won't be buying anything for seven years if you ruin your credit. Geez. And I guess credit destruction will be blamed on something else because no one will want to take responsibility for that, either....)
You should take a class on advertising. Puffing is not against the law. Look into it and it may help you protect yourself from yourself in the future.
Are you pathetically trying to suggest that predatory and deceptive lending practices is considered puffing? The mere suggestion indicates to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. This is further proven by the fact that you have to result to ridiculous personal attacks in each of your post. If I, in some way, actually cared about your opinion of me I would show you my resume and CV and you would see how stupid you really sound.
At the end of the day I believe in personal responsibility but I also believe in consumer rights. If any one re-reads my posts nowhere did I state 'let buyers off the hook, they are completely blameless'. However for someone to suggest that individuals in the mortgage industry, appraisal industry, and real estate industry had absolutely no blame for the current market conditions is incredulous to me and i suggest they go back and do a little fact-checking.
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But I actually do not disagree with what you are saying. I do believe in personal responsibility. However, there was an ethical responsibility on the realtors, lenders, mortgage brokers, banks etc. to provide complete and accurate information to buyers, as that is their field and THEY are supposed to be the experts. I myself was a buyer in 2004 and I could tell you stories for days about the types of things I was told about adjustable ARMS, interest only loans, future appreciation, etc. Even when I wanted a traditional fixed 30-year loan I was actually hassled about taking this route instead of utilizing one of the 'creative' financing tools. My response was to go to a different lender. However, that was not my first property. Many of my friends, specifically in Florida, were first-time home-buyers and are REALLY in dire straights right now. Stupid them for trusting people who had an ethical obligation to fully disclose the risks associated with their products
. If I went to a doctor because I had a stomach ache and he says you need your appendix out, and I go to another doctor and he says the same thing am I supposed to then be expected to somehow have the knowledge to prove these doctors right or wrong? At the end of the day I can do research on the internet all day long but I expect them to provide me accurate information/treatments/diagnoses because that is their profession. Again, do I think homeowners are 100% blameless...no, but I also don't believe they are 100% in the wrong either and I would actually say many of them are behaving or did behave much less unethically than the lenders.
