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I had a 1975 R-75 for a couple of decades. I sold it and do not ride for another couple of decades. When I checked out BMW's they were all too tall. I have short legs and could barely reach the ground. I now have and ride a Suzuki Burgan 650 scooter with a variable ratio transmission. My feet easily reach the ground when I am stopped and this thing handles and stops like a mid size sport bike. It will also cruise at 90+ so I can ride the expressways in traffic. I ride it about 3,000 miles every summer. I may do more this summer.
I'm riding my second BMW. 2004 R1150R Rockster limited edition. Its about to turn over 83,000 miles. No issues. I've ridden it to Denver and back (from Baltimore) and all over the east coast. The simple opposed twin engine is easy to do the basic maintenance on myself.
Hubby has a K/RS and an R65, that he just ordered a throttle part for - which are in stock in the warehouse. What other manufacturer still has parts available for a 30+ year old machine?
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GnomadAK
I know that peer pressure and a bit of snob appeal drove the crowd I rode with to BMW ownership. And yeah I admit I drank the Kool-Aid on the GS, which was the bike that gave me the most aggravation of all. My first BMW, a K750S, was cheap and incomplete and a project, and the present one was the cheapest touring bike I could find. Now the fact that it was the cheapest should guide prosepctive owners when they are making a decision-Gold Wings, Valkyries, and GeexerGlides hold their value a lot better than the LT's.
So when you see the long distance community go on about how great the BMW's are, keep in mind that it's peer pressure driving that decison.
One last nugget-I went out on a ride with the local BMW club. Of the couple dozen bikes on hand that day, 2 were BMW's, one ridden by an old German, very much a classic BMW, and an odd GS. The rest were japanese, and one Harley rider who got hopelessly lost and took hours to find his way back. Sure they all owned BMW's but when the time came to ride, they chose other tools.
Nonsense. Have owned several high-mileage beemers over the years, including an old R60/5 with >240k when I finally sold it, and an R1100RT with >125K, before I recently swapped it for an '83 R100RT, simply 'cuz I've come to prefer the simpler (and lighter) "lo-tech" approach these days. And "peer pressure" never once entered into it, but low-maintenance, rock-solid reliability and great all-around performance did. IMHO, there are lotsa bikes that are faster, more comfy, more affordable, handle better, whatever… but for the way I like to ride, nuthin' else seems to combine the best of all worlds into one package quite the way that beemers do. In fact they invented the very concept of the "sport touring" motorcycle.
RE: BMW and "sport touring" ... (and as a former owner of earlier R50, R60, and a tatty R69S from the 1960's vintages) ...
I'd beg to differ on your reveries about BMW and touring capability and sporting nature bikes ....
While by no means a comprehensive list, and other folks here will no doubt have their fav's, too, I've personally put on a lot of touring miles on several bikes that most certainly pre-date the R100RS, such as:
a 1966 G15CSR Matchless (750cc Norton engine) equipped with Domiracer cams/pistons and other Dunstall mods by the original owner, including a 5 gallon touring tank, solo seat, modest 'bars, and touring bags. I put over 40,000 miles of this bike without it skipping a beat. It was inherently good handling, comfortable and with 4-leading shoe front brake had good brakes for it's era. With a bit of prep work before taking it out on the road for the first time, a good going over to secure the original Whitworth fasteners and adjust the chains/cables and lube all as needed, it had decent lighting and reliability. And it didn't leave a puddle of oil beneath it like so many brit bikes of the era. When it came to track days or riding throughout the Colorado mountains, the bike took a lot of folk by surprise ... yet I had no difficulties continuing on a long weekend trip to CA and back on it. Turned in 55+ mpg, too.
Several 750 Norton Commando's. With the improved frame/motor suspension system, these were as smooth as the BMW's of the era. Capable of freeway speeds all day long, although perhaps a too-small fuel tank for my taste between stops. Again, good handling, a frame capable of holding touring bags, good ergo's, a comfortable seat, and with proper prep ... reliable and oil tight. Rode a lot in the mountains and still made trips to CA and back on these.
Early 750 and 860 Ducati Twins. Superb handling, good brakes, good lighting, a frame to carry touring bags, good fuel economy, comfort, and performance that could smoke a lot of performance oriented bikes of the day when you reached the twisties. Despite laughs over the electrical systems/components ... I never had a problem with them. The key to that was lubing the switches with Dri-Slide or Teflon sprays and keeping water out of the electrical systems (WD-40 was a good item for the toolkit). 500 mile days, no problem.
Others might chime in about touring quite handily on various bigger multi-cylinder Japanese bikes. A 750 four Honda would smoke a BMW (and a lot of other bikes, for that matter) in virtually every category you can name, including engine longevity and overall bike durability, while outhandling and outbraking the BMW of the era.
While one can point to the earlier Earles fork model R60's as being a fairly reliable and durable bike, the later R60's had serious engine top end problems that BMW a long time to correct prior to seeing the larger displacement BMW's hit the market. In all candor, of those bikes in the early 1970's, I found the 'guzzi's to be more comfortable, more reliable/durable, and a better handling bike than their BMW competitors.
The bottom line is that the concept and execution of "sport touring" most certainly was available to the motorcycling community long before 1977 BMW's. Indeed, my former employer ... an Indian, then BSA dealer ... would probably look to his early '60's "Big Valve Super Rocket" BSA as a capable machine long before that BMW. I know that he rode it a lot in sporting rides in the mountains and had no issues with taking it on 400-500 mile days, two-up w/baggage in the saddlebags.
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
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^ ^ Well, by your definition, I suppose most any bike that you enjoy and throw some saddlebags on, and maybe even a windshield, would qualify as a "sport tourer". And if you wanna "nitpick", or come up with your own "definition", that's fine, though I'm simply quoting what the pros say (why, are you a "pro"…lol)?!
Which is really only commonsense anyway, since the RS & RT's were clearly "purpose-built", along with a windtunnel-tested fairing, especially at a time when fairings were still a relatively new phenomenon (remember the clunky Vetter & Wixom fairings of the 70's?). And yes no question, there have been plenty of long distance miles logged on lotsa other bikes beside beemers. But that's the point, that no one had really done all that yet as a whole "package", long before all the Honda ST1100's, Kawaski Concours, and the rest. Which is not to say that some folks still didn't manage to "kluge" together their own version of a, um, 'sport touring' rig!
^ ^ Well, by your definition, I suppose most any bike that you enjoy and throw some saddlebags on, and maybe even a windshield, would qualify as a "sport tourer". And if you wanna "nitpick", or come up with your own "definition", that's fine, though I'm simply quoting what the pros say (why, are you a "pro"…lol)?!
I'm as much a "pro" of the motorcycling biz as any of those journalists. Spent years working for a Berliner Motor Corp Distributor, then ZDS Motor Corp. I got to see the biz from the manufacturing/importing/distributing side rather than just being a consumer/enthusiast rider.
Likely you're ignorant of who the Berliner Bros were ... the North American importers of numerous bike marques, including Norton/Matchless, AJS, Villiers, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, Zundapp, Gilera, Sachs, Greeves, as well as many motorcycling support items, such as Covmo pistons. They were as big a deal in their niche as Max Hoffman played in the importation of BMW into the USA and development/distribution establishment of the brand here.
Which is really only commonsense anyway, since the RS & RT's were clearly "purpose-built", along with a windtunnel-tested fairing, especially at a time when fairings were still a relatively new phenomenon (remember the clunky Vetter & Wixom fairings of the 70's?). And yes no question, there have been plenty of long distance miles logged on lotsa other bikes beside beemers. But that's the point, that no one had really done all that yet as a whole "package", long before all the Honda ST1100's, Kawaski Concours, and the rest. Which is not to say that some folks still didn't manage to "kluge" together their own version of a, um, 'sport touring' rig!
So your definition of a "sport tourer" is predicated upon a performance bike having a "windtunnel-tested fairing" as part of a "purpose built" package from the manufacturer?
While one will find a lot of subsequent development of fairings and cosmetics through the years, even Royal Enfield built their Continental GT 250 Clipper model with a full dustbin fairing as a street "performance" 250cc tourer in the 1960's. (I owned one for a few years and it was a pleasant ride ... although it paled in performance to my naked '66 Ducati Mach 1 or a bicycle kitted Bultaco Metralla of the era). There was nothing "kluged up" for the RE and it's factory dustbin fairing. As well, the popular motorcycling style of the era was for "naked" bikes which were suitable for "sport touring" riding.
What you've missed in the development of bike packages here is that the bikes that hit the market were the result of what the importers projected they could sell through to the retail buyer. The bike features were what the importers specified they wanted and bought from the manufacturers to re-sell here. Such choices as the brakes, engine size/layout, suspension features, electrical system capacity, number of speeds in the gearbox ... were spec'd by the importers. Just like in the car biz, the aftermarket drove the direction of the newer models ... the importers didn't want to give away a possible profit center to somebody else; for example, the aftermarket car sound systems gave rise to factory installed upline systems, or mag wheels replaced steel wheels as standard on many car lines.
You may decry Wixom and others as crude compared to later designs, but they built fairings and bags which were hot sellers in the aftermarket ... hence the importers took up the cue and captured that profit center for themselves. The shoe, so to speak, was really on the other foot ... BMW didn't invent a market concept, the motorcycle owners had already established the demand (across a wide number of marques) which was being fulfilled by the aftermarket. To BMW's credit, they did a better job than the aftermarket fairings did at the time, but they had to do so or their price of admission wouldn't have been a seller compared to buying a naked bike and then installing the aftermarket item. It's really all about the marketing and sales ....
Location: On the "Left Coast", somewhere in "the Land of Fruits & Nuts"
8,852 posts, read 10,454,406 times
Reputation: 6670
^ ^ Fine, however you wish to see it. Although interesting that a former job at a motorcycle distributor should now qualify you as a motorcycle "expert"? But maybe that also explains why the parts jockeys at the local AutoZone all think they're Nascar champeens now (at least in their own minds…lol)?!
BTW, sorry if your local beemer club didn't make you feel "special" enough, although it is ironic that such a self-styled "pro" (along with his "bespoke Ducati") should blame any problems on the "status-seeking" of others!
^ ^ Fine, however you wish to see it. Although interesting that a former job at a motorcycle distributor should now qualify you as a motorcycle "expert"? But maybe that also explains why the parts jockeys at the local AutoZone all think they're Nascar champeens now (at least in their own minds…lol)?!
sorry that you've chosen to take a low road about this background of mine. The fact is that I got to deal with many aspects of the motorcycles that were imported at a manufacturer's level ... unlike your citing a parts counterman's daydreams of association with auto racing.
What you apparently refuse to understand is that I had direct contact and input with the engineers, designers, importer, distributor, and dealer network in my job capacity. I was in the chain of folk that made decisions about colors, styling, standard features (including mechanical items), tire sizes, wheel selection, everything right down to the name of some bikes. I got to visit with the engineers and bring up my concerns about various components; at some times, I was able to even suggest my "field fix" based upon what I'd seen at our dealers or devised in the distributor level.
For an example of the level of involvement I was in ... early 'guzzi V-twins had a face ball bearing in the clutch throw-out shaft. It was routinely failing due to being underdesigned for the typical American rider who sat at stops with the clutch held in rather than being in neutral. After seeing a bunch of these replaced under warranty, we came up with a "field fix". (with most of the credit due to Steve Zabarro, the "parts man" at ZDS and Bob Blair, the owner ... a very good rider and tech in his own right). It involved boring out the back transmission housing to accept a larger diameter face needle bearing (such as used in an automatic transmission) and installing that. I personally did this modification to well over 50 police service bikes, out in the field, and I trained dealership and municipal service dept techs how to readily remove the transmission back cover for us to do the "fix" back at ZDS on an exchange basis. When Guzzi Factory Engineer DaVida came over on one of his trips to the USA to follow up on the design parameters, we showed him the dedicated tooling we'd made for our mill and how we were durably correcting the problem in the transmission. The work we did was accepted by the factory as a standard item after that and production was changed to incorporate the larger throw out bearing at a minimal cost change to correct this problem. Many riders, of course, did not see this problem with the bikes, but at a distributor/importer level ... we did.
As well, we saw lot of other field problems that many riders did not encounter such as breaking mounting brackets for the big generator on the V-twins, or the decorative covers for it breaking apart due to resonant flexing at cruising RPM. But at the importer level, we got to track the replacement parts requests and follow up on the issues.
I appreciate that you are unlikely to understand such issues in the overall scheme of a manufacturer, importer, or distributor, or field service rep to the dealer network ... but that's what we did in the supply chain to bring a product to market and support it. Too bad your profound ignorance is showing here.
BTW, sorry if your local beemer club didn't make you feel "special" enough, although it is ironic that such a self-styled "pro" (along with his "bespoke Ducati") should blame any problems on the "status-seeking" of others!
Your comprehension and/or reading skills need a bit of tuning up. May I suggest that you head back to your local junior college for a GED on the cheap?
It's really not terribly difficult, I'll bet even you could make it through the course with a bit of tutoring by a 9th grader.
In other words, I'm not the poster who had inadequate warm fuzzies from my "local beemer club", nor did I ever ride anything on the basis of "status-seeking" of others. I bought my bikes on the basis of my own riding needs and budget and the prospective opportunities to turn a profit ... and whether any squid like you approved of it or not wasn't of the slightest concern to me.
Fact is I made a lot of money through the years buying bikes that others didn't want for low prices, dolling them up a little bit, and then selling them when I got stupidly high offers from folk when I was on the street riding those bikes. In over 40 years, I never had to advertise a bike for sale ... I always got unsolicited offers and never fell in love with any machine. If the price was right, all I needed was the color of money and we could both be on our way.
PS: I happily sold the last of my Ducati Mach 1 and Mark 3 Diana collection for an enormous net profit after 40+ years of ownership to a collector in England just a couple of years ago. I'd mentioned having the bikes on the Ducati Owner's Forum in the course of assisting other duck owners and his unsolicited offer came through. A wire transfer to my bank and his arranging the shipment via a Houston freight line had me crating the bikes and shipping them out at his cost. Doubtless these bikes wouldn't even register on your radar as a superior BMW owner ... but what you're riding isn't even worth the price point of what each of those little duck's brought me. The market knows what you've got.
I might wish I had never sold the '73 R-75/5 but I would most likely still ride my Burgman scooter most of the time.
My major problem with newer bikes is they are simply too tall except for the "cruiser" configuration. I do not like the feet out front layout.
I hear you but the population is getting taller and taller. I myself am 6'7" but I know people even taller. The beemer I'm looking at might just fit well underneath me if I ever get the chance to take one for a test ride.
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