Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive > Motorcycles, Scooters, ATVs, Boats, Watercrafts, Snowmobiles
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-24-2015, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,327,268 times
Reputation: 3089

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert20170 View Post
Don't get a motorcycle to save money on your commute. You'll likely spend more than a used car. I commute in the DC area on a motorcycle, because I enjoy the commute better on two wheels. That's the only reason to do it.
You sure about that?

$500+ for tires on your car
$80-$120 for your bike

$50-100 /year in insurance (varies)
alot more lol / Car

Maintenance is more frequent, sure... but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the potential cost of some of the things you have in your car. And if you are buying a car valued at the price of a scooter / motorcycle... then you can bet you'll have some big maintenance expenses.

80-120mpg vs 20-40mpg (no contest).


I could go on...

You want to know the one real argument against it? Safety.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-24-2015, 10:56 AM
 
4,366 posts, read 4,565,059 times
Reputation: 2957
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
You sure about that?

$500+ for tires on your car
$80-$120 for your bike

$50-100 /year in insurance (varies)
alot more lol / Car

Maintenance is more frequent, sure... but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the potential cost of some of the things you have in your car. And if you are buying a car valued at the price of a scooter / motorcycle... then you can bet you'll have some big maintenance expenses.

80-120mpg vs 20-40mpg (no contest).


I could go on...

You want to know the one real argument against it? Safety.

Sorry, but has anyone actually read my posts? You talked me out of a motorcycle already. I'm looking at scooters and three-wheeled EVs. I still need a motorcycle license for them, though.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2015, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,327,268 times
Reputation: 3089
Quote:
Originally Posted by kmb501 View Post
Sorry, but has anyone actually read my posts? You talked me out of a motorcycle already. I'm looking at scooters and three-wheeled EVs. I still need a motorcycle license for them, though.
Not sure how, I've posted nothing but positives. All I said was that safety is a factor. That isn't me talking you out of it, that's just reality. If you can't deal with that then you shouldn't be getting one anyway.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2015, 02:10 PM
 
4,690 posts, read 10,381,478 times
Reputation: 14882
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
You sure about that?

$500 for tires on your car
$80-$120 for your bike
Car tires last 50~60k miles (so $0.01/mile) and I've never paid more than $500 with mounting and balancing.

Motorcycle tires average about 8k (between the 4k sport that cost ~$300/set and 10~12k touring and most sets are closer to $150 in my experience), so $0.019/mile... nearly twice as much


Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
$50-100 /year in insurance (varies)
alot more lol / Car
If you're talking similar coverage (state minimums or full coverage, but the same for both) there's very little difference. I pay about $150/year for liability and comprehensive at near maximum limits on any/all motorcycles, and about $165~170/year for the same on both my car and truck. It's close enough as makes no difference. Obviously your insurance rating/score (like a credit score) and location factor Heavily into pricing. This one has a lot more variance... Finance your motorcycle and have to buy Collision and insurance suddenly isn't so cheap anymore. I know some who were in the $150/month range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
Maintenance is more frequent, sure... but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the potential cost of some of the things you have in your car.
I see the key word there... Potential costs. The reality is that a simple, cheap and commonly available tune-up/once over on a car is vastly more common than a motorcycle/scooter while also all but eliminating those Potential costs. With the exception of oil, filters and tires, my cars need attention every 100k miles (one has 260k, the other 180k). As for buying used, spending the money on a PPI does the same thing, you can factor in your total cost right from the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
80-120mpg vs 20-40mpg (no contest).
A tiny minority of 2/3 wheeled vehicles are north of 60mpg, the VAST majority are in the 40~60mpg range. Lets say they have an average of 50 and cars an average of 30 (mine gets 48, but it's an outlier). Over a 15k mile "average" years worth of travels, at the same fuel costs ($2.50), you're spending $750 on a MC and $1250 in a car... a difference of $42/month... Not a whole lot of money, that $42 bucks a month. Can it even pay one of your normal monthly bills? Even if you get 100mpg, that's $600/year in fuel costs, a difference of $54/month. It's just not that much money when you break it out.



This completely ignores that fact that someone getting into motorcycling has to buy gear (~$500 if done cheaply but all new, I wear about $2000 in gear). You lose ALL utility, need to swing by the store for more than milk and eggs? Good luck with that (It can be done, but it's not enjoyable). If it's raining, cold, hot, you're sick, have a crick in your neck and can't turn your head.... all have a significantly larger impact when on 2 wheels vs in a cage. Opt for a scooter vs car and there's even More compromise.. mostly, it only works for those who live in a very urban environment and Never leave that environment.

I love riding, I love getting new people into riding. I love the excitement and the joy, the relaxation and the unique experiences that come from riding. But saving money? It's simply not there. The only way to know is to calculate your cost per mile, including Every expense. Cars cost more up front but save Much more over a long term ownership, motorcycles are significantly cheaper up front but are expensive to maintain/operate (every 5~6k miles for some, others can make it ~15k miles vs the 100k for cars). It's like wrapping the cost of a call phone into the monthly bill vs buying one outright in terms of pricing difference... our cell phone bill is half that of my in-laws because we buy our phones (used) outright and can pick better plans because of it. Of course we're out of pocket a couple hundred up front and don't have the newest/latest/greatest...

I don't expect you to believe, I know I sure didn't when my riding buddy argued this exact same point nearly 20 years ago. Prove it though, start a spreadsheet and keep accurate records of every expense and the miles traveled. That's the only way you'll know, for certain... but I expect you'll change your mind. I have spreadsheets for 3 cars and a dozen bikes over the last 15 years, the story is always the same.

It's certainly not as black/white as we're putting out there either. Very few people go 2-wheel only (I did for 8 years), so Most are paying for both a car and a motorcycle. Those who do, don't tend to care about any extra expense down the road . A good motorcycle is cheaper to get into than a good car, and if you're into performance than a motorcycle is VASTLY cheaper than a similar performing car.

The real point is that riding should be done for joy. "Because I like to ride" is an argument with no refute.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2015, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,327,268 times
Reputation: 3089
I've had my scooter for 3 years... here's a run down on my expenses so far.

Bike: Honda PCX150 - $3,350
stats: 153cc, 65mph max, 105mpg

First Maintenance @ 500 miles (change of oil, inspection) - $75
2nd @ 2,500 (Change of oil, inspection) - $50
3rd @ 4,000 (Change of oil, spark plug) - $100
4th @ 5,500 (Change of oil, front tire) - $130 (tire was $70)
5th @ 7,000 (Change of oil, rear tire, inspection, random issue) ($220)

Insurance : $50/year

I'm due for another maintenance coming up now. I know that over the life of the vehicle

so about every 1,500 to 2,000 miles I'm spending usually $50-$75 until a tire is needed which I've been told is usually 6,000 to 8,000 miles.

So the total Maintenance is at $575 right now so far, and I've burned about 74 gallons of gas (7,900 miles).
Total cost in gas is $185+$575= $760./7,900 miles = $0.096/mi

*********************

I just bought a new car in 2013 in January (Honda Civic EX 2012 $15,900) and so far I've had only oil changes which are every 3,500 miles and typically about $50 and I get on average 35mpg. I will be doing my first maintenance very shortly and I've put about 20,000 miles on it thus far.

I've had to replace all 4 tires which run me about $500

k, so that 571 gallons of gas at about $2.50/gal (varies) we'll say that cost me $1,428 in gas. Per mile, that would calculate to be $0.07/mi + $50 per oil change (I've had 6) = another 1.5c per mile

$0.085/mi + Tires which is another $0.025/mi = $0.11/mi

**************


Okay so I'm going to conclude that I suppose you're right... Bear with me because I did these numbers on the fly and have never run them myself until writing this post. I didn't even factor in gear. If I add gear then it's more similar.

The only thing that tips the scale more in the bike's favor is insurance cost for me anyway (I pay $800/6months). But I find insurance to be irrelevant only because I HAVE to have a car, regardless.

Well... I still like to ride :-) But I think I'll probably consider another car first. The bike will just be a hobby.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2015, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Vallejo
21,716 posts, read 24,949,937 times
Reputation: 18986
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
You sure about that?

$500+ for tires on your car
$80-$120 for your bike

$50-100 /year in insurance (varies)
alot more lol / Car

Maintenance is more frequent, sure... but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the potential cost of some of the things you have in your car. And if you are buying a car valued at the price of a scooter / motorcycle... then you can bet you'll have some big maintenance expenses.

80-120mpg vs 20-40mpg (no contest).


I could go on...

You want to know the one real argument against it? Safety.
Tires $500 mounted/balanced/shipped on the car, and they'll last 50k miles.
I got lazy and had my motorcycle tires mounted for me $80 (crappy price, I though it was $40 for both turns out that its per tire... good shop but damn are they expensive). The tires were $230. They'll last around 6k rear and maybe 10-12k for the front, not really sure. Never used Lasertecs before but they don't have a reputation for lasting very long. Car tires are way cheaper.

Insurance? You price it. Full coverage on a CB500x for me was $1,000/yr vs $1,500 for the car. Liability was $100 for 50/100, which is less than I carry on the car. It's the UM $200 (wtf?), comp $200, and collision $500 (wtf?) that kill you. I'm not paying that for what is basically a toy. Collision is actually MORE expensive on a $6,000 motorcycle than a $25,000 car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-24-2015, 05:57 PM
 
281 posts, read 367,033 times
Reputation: 552
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_M View Post
Car tires last 50~60k miles (so $0.01/mile) and I've never paid more than $500 with mounting and balancing.

Motorcycle tires average about 8k (between the 4k sport that cost ~$300/set and 10~12k touring and most sets are closer to $150 in my experience), so $0.019/mile... nearly twice as much




If you're talking similar coverage (state minimums or full coverage, but the same for both) there's very little difference. I pay about $150/year for liability and comprehensive at near maximum limits on any/all motorcycles, and about $165~170/year for the same on both my car and truck. It's close enough as makes no difference. Obviously your insurance rating/score (like a credit score) and location factor Heavily into pricing. This one has a lot more variance... Finance your motorcycle and have to buy Collision and insurance suddenly isn't so cheap anymore. I know some who were in the $150/month range.



I see the key word there... Potential costs. The reality is that a simple, cheap and commonly available tune-up/once over on a car is vastly more common than a motorcycle/scooter while also all but eliminating those Potential costs. With the exception of oil, filters and tires, my cars need attention every 100k miles (one has 260k, the other 180k). As for buying used, spending the money on a PPI does the same thing, you can factor in your total cost right from the start.



A tiny minority of 2/3 wheeled vehicles are north of 60mpg, the VAST majority are in the 40~60mpg range. Lets say they have an average of 50 and cars an average of 30 (mine gets 48, but it's an outlier). Over a 15k mile "average" years worth of travels, at the same fuel costs ($2.50), you're spending $750 on a MC and $1250 in a car... a difference of $42/month... Not a whole lot of money, that $42 bucks a month. Can it even pay one of your normal monthly bills? Even if you get 100mpg, that's $600/year in fuel costs, a difference of $54/month. It's just not that much money when you break it out.



This completely ignores that fact that someone getting into motorcycling has to buy gear (~$500 if done cheaply but all new, I wear about $2000 in gear). You lose ALL utility, need to swing by the store for more than milk and eggs? Good luck with that (It can be done, but it's not enjoyable). If it's raining, cold, hot, you're sick, have a crick in your neck and can't turn your head.... all have a significantly larger impact when on 2 wheels vs in a cage. Opt for a scooter vs car and there's even More compromise.. mostly, it only works for those who live in a very urban environment and Never leave that environment.

I love riding, I love getting new people into riding. I love the excitement and the joy, the relaxation and the unique experiences that come from riding. But saving money? It's simply not there. The only way to know is to calculate your cost per mile, including Every expense. Cars cost more up front but save Much more over a long term ownership, motorcycles are significantly cheaper up front but are expensive to maintain/operate (every 5~6k miles for some, others can make it ~15k miles vs the 100k for cars). It's like wrapping the cost of a call phone into the monthly bill vs buying one outright in terms of pricing difference... our cell phone bill is half that of my in-laws because we buy our phones (used) outright and can pick better plans because of it. Of course we're out of pocket a couple hundred up front and don't have the newest/latest/greatest...

I don't expect you to believe, I know I sure didn't when my riding buddy argued this exact same point nearly 20 years ago. Prove it though, start a spreadsheet and keep accurate records of every expense and the miles traveled. That's the only way you'll know, for certain... but I expect you'll change your mind. I have spreadsheets for 3 cars and a dozen bikes over the last 15 years, the story is always the same.

It's certainly not as black/white as we're putting out there either. Very few people go 2-wheel only (I did for 8 years), so Most are paying for both a car and a motorcycle. Those who do, don't tend to care about any extra expense down the road . A good motorcycle is cheaper to get into than a good car, and if you're into performance than a motorcycle is VASTLY cheaper than a similar performing car.

The real point is that riding should be done for joy. "Because I like to ride" is an argument with no refute.
This. If you skimp (don't wear gear, ride without insurance, etc...), you can make it cheaper, but in the end most people will have to ride because they like it.

One notable exception might be if you find yourself having to commute in hours where HOV lane can save you a lot of time (and you're in a state where you can take it). I've done this for three years now, but even still if I need to stop somewhere after work and look presentable, I suck it up and take the car.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-25-2015, 09:01 AM
 
4,366 posts, read 4,565,059 times
Reputation: 2957
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
Not sure how, I've posted nothing but positives. All I said was that safety is a factor. That isn't me talking you out of it, that's just reality. If you can't deal with that then you shouldn't be getting one anyway.

I didn't mean you personally; I was talking about the whole group who seems to think motorcycles are a fast way to eternity. Besides, I already mentioned that I was interested in something besides a motorcycle in my first few posts.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2015, 07:50 AM
 
Location: IN>Germany>ND>OH>TX>CA>Currently NoVa and a Vacation Lake House in PA
3,256 posts, read 4,300,455 times
Reputation: 13451
Quote:
Originally Posted by wolf39us View Post
You sure about that?

$500+ for tires on your car
$80-$120 for your bike

$50-100 /year in insurance (varies)
alot more lol / Car

Maintenance is more frequent, sure... but it's a drop in the bucket compared to the potential cost of some of the things you have in your car. And if you are buying a car valued at the price of a scooter / motorcycle... then you can bet you'll have some big maintenance expenses.

80-120mpg vs 20-40mpg (no contest).


I could go on...

You want to know the one real argument against it? Safety.
Ya, I'm sure. Do you actually own a motorcycle? I seriously doubt it, but I'm sure you're great at internet research. This is a perfect example of using incorrect numbers to back up a flawed argument.

$500 for tires on a car is about right. BTW, they last 50k miles or more and include installation. $120 for a rear motorcycle tire is about right, and they last around 10k miles, so for the same mileage you're looking at around $600 for just the rear tire kick in around $50 to have it mounted and balanced each and every time. $80 for a front tire is close, and again, you might get 12k miles out of it. So, now we're at around $320 and include $20 each time you have it mounted and balanced. Now we're up to around $1,200 for those same 50k miles. Geez...that's a big difference. Advantage: Car

Yep, depending on the bike, insurance can be a bit cheaper for a bike. My bike is around $240 every six months and car around $400. As with most people, I need to have a car and can't rely solely on a motorcycle due to weather and, you know, going to the grocery store or Home Depot. So, it's not just a matter of saying a motorcycle will be cheaper on insurance, because I'm going to be paying the car insurance regardless. Using the term "alot" for the insurance is mostly deceiving. I'd venture to say 95 out of 100 people that own a motorcycle also own a car. In point of fact, my insurance would be cheaper by $480 a year if I didn't have the motorcycle and was only insuring my car. Advantage: Car ownership only

Maintenance isn't even close, but it depends on the bike. You can assume around twice as much for the same mileage. Even doing my own maintenance, the bike is more expensive. Advantage: Car

I get 30 MPG from my cage and around 50 MPG from the bike, so I save a bit there. Let's do the math, shall we? I have a 60 mile round trip each day, so figure 300 miles a week. Let's assume gas is $2.89. My car costs me $28.90 a week and the bike is $17.34. So, per year the car would cost $1502.80 and the bike $901.68. That's $600 a year in savings. Advantage: Bike

Numbers are a funny thing, aren't they?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2015, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Seymour, CT
3,639 posts, read 3,327,268 times
Reputation: 3089
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert20170 View Post
Ya, I'm sure. Do you actually own a motorcycle? I seriously doubt it, but I'm sure you're great at internet research. This is a perfect example of using incorrect numbers to back up a flawed argument.

$500 for tires on a car is about right. BTW, they last 50k miles or more and include installation. $120 for a rear motorcycle tire is about right, and they last around 10k miles, so for the same mileage you're looking at around $600 for just the rear tire kick in around $50 to have it mounted and balanced each and every time. $80 for a front tire is close, and again, you might get 12k miles out of it. So, now we're at around $320 and include $20 each time you have it mounted and balanced. Now we're up to around $1,200 for those same 50k miles. Geez...that's a big difference. Advantage: Car

Yep, depending on the bike, insurance can be a bit cheaper for a bike. My bike is around $240 every six months and car around $400. As with most people, I need to have a car and can't rely solely on a motorcycle due to weather and, you know, going to the grocery store or Home Depot. So, it's not just a matter of saying a motorcycle will be cheaper on insurance, because I'm going to be paying the car insurance regardless. Using the term "alot" for the insurance is mostly deceiving. I'd venture to say 95 out of 100 people that own a motorcycle also own a car. In point of fact, my insurance would be cheaper by $480 a year if I didn't have the motorcycle and was only insuring my car. Advantage: Car ownership only

Maintenance isn't even close, but it depends on the bike. You can assume around twice as much for the same mileage. Even doing my own maintenance, the bike is more expensive. Advantage: Car

I get 30 MPG from my cage and around 50 MPG from the bike, so I save a bit there. Let's do the math, shall we? I have a 60 mile round trip each day, so figure 300 miles a week. Let's assume gas is $2.89. My car costs me $28.90 a week and the bike is $17.34. So, per year the car would cost $1502.80 and the bike $901.68. That's $600 a year in savings. Advantage: Bike

Numbers are a funny thing, aren't they?
I own a Honda PCX150, and if you take a look at post #25 I laid out all of my numbers.

Chill dude
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Automotive > Motorcycles, Scooters, ATVs, Boats, Watercrafts, Snowmobiles

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:45 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top