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Making a movie or any story "for the fans" ... down that road lies madness. If you got a room full of fifty STAR WARS fans, you'd have fifty different opinions. By trying to please everyone, you'll please no one.
What Lucasfilm needs to do is find storytellers with a genuine love and understanding of the universe, a vision for where they want to take the story, then get the hell out of their way.
Unfortunately, in a Hollywood driven entirely by marketing and focus groups, very few people are making those kinds of movies anymore. And with "brand" movies like STAR WARS, Marvel, DC, etc., it isn't happening at all.
Well, you do make a movie (or write a book) "for the fans"-- or more specifically, "for an audience."
And you should have an idea of what that audience is.
And if you've been specifically developing an audience for the intent of selling them something, then sell it to them. Don't carefully develop an audience for one product and then spring something different on them.
That's because I never did and I like the way you worded your response. Clearly Mr. Taylor equates how much money films make with how good they must be. I however, do not. Any of my friends and other comic book fans do not like the direction that the Marvel Hero movies are going in.
Hmmm. Well, I guess that raises the question of: Whose friends have made the Marvel movie empire into a 13 billion dollar industry? Because with the example of JL... surely it's not people who didn't like those movies and who didn't think that those movies were good.
However, if I'm understanding you correctly, the criteria for whether or not Marvel and Disney movies are any good is based upon your friends' and comic book fans' opinions? And therefore, nobody else's opinions matter?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazertrek50
Humor is all well and good but when it takes over the movie as it did with Thor well than it loses it's ties with the Marvel Universe that I grew up reading about, still read about.
Yeah, but we're just talking about one little Marvel movie(well, three if you're talking about the two GotG movies, which by nature are suppose to be irreverent and funny) whose franchise wasn't really doing that great and where the studio wanted to take this franchise to a different level. And which it did:
Waititi, 42, is just the latest in a long string of upstart directors — like Colin Trevorrow (“Jurassic World”), James Gunn (“Guardians of the Galaxy”) and Gareth Edwards (“Godzilla”) — handed the keys to some of the most expensive entertainment machines in the world. Studios hire these indie auteurs to deliver (at a reasonable price, and in a way they feel they can control) a little shot of cool to a staid or stagnant property. Sometimes, as with Patty Jenkins on “Wonder Woman,” the spark delivered by a new director can reinvigorate an entire cinematic universe and stave off franchise fatigue; other times, as with Josh Trank’s disastrous “Fantastic Four,” the move puts a small-movie director in a position to fail more hugely than anyone ever imagined possible.
[. . .]
In hiring Waititi for “Thor,” Marvel found a director with an anarchic visual aesthetic whose storytelling interests were nonetheless deeply, satisfyingly conventional. “In a lot of my films,” Waititi said, “the biggest theme is family, making families out of those around you.” That theme drives Marvel Studios’ “Guardians of the Galaxy” series, an unexpected hit whose energy the third “Thor” movie seems designed to replicate.
Also, I didn't even like the GotG films... however, I'm not going to say that they weren't done correctly or that the people who did those films didn't know what they were doing.
I made it four minutes before I gave up. He isn't speaking to me. My dislike of the movie has nothing to do with STAR WARS fanobyishness. THE LAST JEDI simply fails on basic storytelling elements.
So how, in your opinion, did TLJ fail on a basic story level?
i agree that it fails basic storytelling elements.
For example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
However, there is a different take to the "failing the fans" issue that I've spoken about before, and that's that the movie stymies the effort Disney has been making to create a new generation of fans.
Sure, the old Skywalker Saga fans had reasons to be upset, but so did the young fans of Clone Wars and Rebels, who have been cultured on certain aspects of the force and other force users that the movie should have capitalized on. Those new, young fans that Disney has been cultivating were also disappointed.
But I thought that this new franchise wanted to move beyond the old franchise and the current(I think current) Clone Wars and Rebels series and go forward... creating new elements and finding new fans for Star Wars. Also, I thought that was the whole point of featuring Broom Boy and the other kids on Canto Bight. And having the Resistance almost come to an end with possibly new recruiting efforts and the creation of a new Resistance.
Also, from what I'm understanding about this new franchise is that Episode IX isn't going to be the end of this story arc and that there will apparently be an Episode X, XI, and XII. Plus, I was thinking that Kylo Ren was just getting started and that he will continue to be the big bad in X, XI, and XII.
P.S. And by the way on a side note, and probably to some people's dismay, you may have heard that:
Making a movie or any story "for the fans" ... down that road lies madness. If you got a room full of fifty STAR WARS fans, you'd have fifty different opinions. By trying to please everyone, you'll please no one.
What Lucasfilm needs to do is find storytellers with a genuine love and understanding of the universe, a vision for where they want to take the story, then get the hell out of their way.
Unfortunately, in a Hollywood driven entirely by marketing and focus groups, very few people are making those kinds of movies anymore. And with "brand" movies like STAR WARS, Marvel, DC, etc., it isn't happening at all.
Hmmm...
Quote:
Johnson has been a lifelong fan of the franchise, and he even chose to go to film school at the University of Southern California because the creator of "Star Wars," George Lucas, went there. In many ways, his entire career has been leading up to this point.
Also, Mark, I hate to break it to you... but some fans actually liked TLJ:
Quote:
Every Star Wars film incites passionate reactions from fans, but Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is arguably tearing this fan base apart. Some fans dubbed it the best Star Wars since Empire Strikes Back, others signed a petition demanding the "travesty" be struck from the official canon and remade. Some passionate fans even made death threats.
That's because I never did and I like the way you worded your response. Clearly Mr. Taylor equates how much money films make with how good they must be. I however, do not. Any of my friends and other comic book fans do not like the direction that the Marvel Hero movies are going in. Humor is all well and good but when it takes over the movie as it did with Thor well than it loses it's ties with the Marvel Universe that I grew up reading about, still read about.
If a comic book issue sells 30,000 copies, that's considered good business these days. But it's absurdly tiny compared to what movies do. Meaning that "comic book fans" don't particularly amount to much with regard to movie fan consideration.
But I thought that this new franchise wanted to move beyond the old franchise and the current(I think current) Clone Wars and Rebels series and go forward... creating new elements and finding new fans for Star Wars. Also, I thought that was the whole point of featuring Broom Boy and the other kids on Canto Bight. And having the Resistance almost come to an end with possibly new recruiting efforts and the creation of a new Resistance.
The Rebel series is forward. That's what's creating the new audience.
I've mentioned before my eye-opening experiences of hearing Z generation kids explaining Star Wars to their "elders" without mentioning anything from the movies--their Star Wars universe is made up of the various television series (and Disney is expanding those).
Connecting television with movies is something Marvel does right. Failing to connect television with movies will be something Disney does wrong.
If a comic book issue sells 30,000 copies, that's considered good business these days. But it's absurdly tiny compared to what movies do. Meaning that "comic book fans" don't particularly amount to much with regard to movie fan consideration.
Thanks for the info, Ralph.
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