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Incorrect. You even agree that the CW shows have a very specific flavor. CW and DCU are tonally night and day. DCU shows aren't supposed to be soap opera-ish at all. They're camp-free. Swamp Thing's horror slant was promoted from the start. If James Wan himself doesn't know what's up, it means somebody way higher is throwing switches. Not somebody at DC-Warner.
The MCU is a ship, and we know who its captain is. What he says, goes. Every time. (Go see the link I posted in the Dark Phoenix thread.) If anything's a "watery broth," it's Marvel, because the ingredients are beyond puréed. At best, you'll get something akin to that Soylent meal substitute gunk that's promoted all over social media.
There's no valid reason for every single show or movie to have the same recipe, the same driver, the same architect, the same vision. Whatever label you want to apply to it. Comics creative teams don't all follow the same blueprint, and neither should the shows.
Swamp Thing is a horror show that takes elements directly from the comics, and somebody upstairs assumed he was getting a swamp boogeyman show like the one from the '90s.
The CW shows are fine. Black Lightning was a pretty good family drama in season 1. The Flash is a great melodrama but with action. Arrow is Arrow (I like some of it but other parts not so much) and Legends and Superbowl are there.(not a knock on Melissa but the show isn't that great.) What will be interesting is where these shows go from here. Arrow is rapping up. The Flash is looking to finally do Crisis next year after it being teased in the first episode. Supergirl is rumored to be ending and no word on Legends and Black Lightning though Legends became a mid season fill in which is not really a great spot especially with the CW.
The MCU has its tone which is fun but can get serious. The problem is when the fun gets in the way of the seriousness namely Thor Ragnarok. If Marvel had more Russo Brothers, James Gunns or Payton Reeds; this wouldn't be a problem. He'll bring in the directors from Deadlock and Deadpool 2, both did great balancing the seriousness and comedy of the merc with a mouth.
DC on the other hand is too serious. And when they do break the mold from that it works but in the case of Shazam it felt at times too much like a Marvel movie.. Not like Aquaman which took from Thor and Black Panther with the family members battling over being the Ocean Master or Wonder Woman which to me was First Avenger but in World War 1 but with Wonder Woman mythology. I feel if they can do Shazam style where it don't come off as so close, it could work better. I hope James Gunn don't make Suicide Squad (2?) a Guardians of the Galaxy. Can eliments of Guardians work in Suicide Squad, yes and the first movie showed that. But honestly, I don't have much faith in DC despite Aquaman and Shazam being good movies. They lost a lot in me with the three films that followed Batman V Superman. I know it isn't popular to say I didn't like Wonder Woman, but I didn't. And it wasn't Gal Gadot's fault or even Patty Jenkins but the writers. It was very much as I said earlier, Wonder Woman mythos doing First Avenger but during WW1 not WW2.
Anything 90's is dated but I think cartoon wise they wouldn't be. Cartoons besides maybe a dated reference to the 1990's unless it is like say Deadpool (who was only a shadow in the subway train during a Wolverine freak out) or maybe Morph/Changling (the jokey shapeshifter who was thought to be dead) doing it, wouldn't fit in a X-Men '92 character. Animaniacs however (abother Fox show getting an animated relaunch) it works because the characters in particular the Warners would always do that.
The '90s were a Silver Age of animation. So many great cartoons came out of the '90s --- BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES, SUPERMAN, ANIMANIACS, PINKY AND THE BRAIN, BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD, GARGOYLES, X-MEN, DEXTER'S LABORATORY, DARKWING DUCK. Even the '90s Spidey cartoons weren't half bad.
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
Animation design I think would work even to today though not the earlier error filled episodes or the later designs that didn't even look like the series. Why I say this is because traditional looking animation is still popular even if it is done on computer now as oppose to cels like the 90's show. As long as they don't go flash style, it should be fine. I just don't like flash animation in shows, looks cheap.
As much as I enjoyed the old X-Men cartoon, it reflected the "science fiction on acid" aesthetic of the '90s comics. I never liked it. I mean, look at this. Jean Grey looks like she just popped out of a cake at a Flash Gordon fetish club.
The '90s were a Silver Age of animation. So many great cartoons came out of the '90s --- BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES, SUPERMAN, ANIMANIACS, PINKY AND THE BRAIN, BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD, GARGOYLES, X-MEN, DEXTER'S LABORATORY, DARKWING DUCK. Even the '90s Spidey cartoons weren't half bad.
Spider-Man 94 was where I got 90% of my comicbook fandom.because every Marvel character who meant something besides Thor were in that show at least in one episode. Plus the series was handled like a comic series with all the mini-serialization in it. That series don't get enough credit and I wish more shows would do that on a regular basis, comic-based or not. Animated or live action.
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As much as I enjoyed the old X-Men cartoon, it reflected the "science fiction on acid" aesthetic of the '90s comics. I never liked it. I mean, look at this. Jean Grey looks like she just popped out of a cake at a Flash Gordon fetish club.
Jean's look in that show was the only suit that bugged me honestly. The rest were good. That said after seeing the eighties X-Factor look costumes in Dark Phoenix, I'm not sure how X-Men should look and be taken seriously when they are rebooted in the MCU.
Yup. The writing was great --- although rather dated in some respects by today's standards. The voice acting was generally pretty good. But the animation was really bad, if not outright goofy in design then just poorly done in execution.
Same difference. Not interested in a war of semantics.
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Originally Posted by Mark S.
We don't know what it means. No one seems to know. Those who do ain't talking. It's all speculation on our part. But decisions like this as well as many of the movie miss-steps make it look like the Rodeo Clown College is in charge.
We know a lot more now. The studio hasn't stepped up to refute any of it, either.
The exec board, as we'll call them, watched the completed episodes and weren't happy. They expected Arrow and got Ash vs. Evil Dead.
Then this happened:
Episode count trimmed by three; no second season.
Reshoots ordered on four different episodes.
CW expressed interest, but passed. Don't know what's up with HBO, but that would be a far better platform.
James Wan and Mark Verheiden appealed to the Most High Council in order to delay a final decision until the middle of this month. They agreed, but then backpedaled and ordered the sets in North Carolina to be dismantled.
Jean's look in that show was the only suit that bugged me honestly. The rest were good. That said after seeing the eighties X-Factor look costumes in Dark Phoenix, I'm not sure how X-Men should look and be taken seriously when they are rebooted in the MCU.
For live-action movies, the directors need to seriously rethink the need for "costumes" anyway. It is REALLY hard not to make them look goofy.
I understand why Superman has a costume. It isn't a costume. That's Kryptonian clothes. Batman's suit is not only an arsenal but a disguise intended to intimidate criminals and give him an edge. Spidey comes right out of the amateur wrestling circuit, so it is inherently goofy. All good reasons.
But why would the X-men don costumes? Why Daredevil? It doesn't makes much sense. You can pull it off in animation, but in live action a great deal of goofy comes through no matter what you do.
Because the Decision Makers at WB (whoever they are) not only have a fundamental misunderstanding of the stories and characters they own, they seem to have complete disdain for the audience and creators trying to make those stories and characters.
The CW shows are fine. Black Lightning was a pretty good family drama in season 1. The Flash is a great melodrama but with action. Arrow is Arrow (I like some of it but other parts not so much) and Legends and Superbowl are there.(not a knock on Melissa but the show isn't that great.) What will be interesting is where these shows go from here. Arrow is rapping up. The Flash is looking to finally do Crisis next year after it being teased in the first episode. Supergirl is rumored to be ending and no word on Legends and Black Lightning though Legends became a mid season fill in which is not really a great spot especially with the CW.
I wasn't complaining about the CW. That's MarkuS. Black Lightning's a really good show. I burned out on Flash, but look forward to CoIE. I hope Batwoman is solid. I liked Ruby Rose in John Wick Chapter Two. She emotes better without a single word of dialogue (in that movie) than Brie Larson.
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
The MCU has its tone which is fun but can get serious. The problem is when the fun gets in the way of the seriousness namely Thor Ragnarok. If Marvel had more Russo Brothers, James Gunns or Payton Reeds; this wouldn't be a problem. He'll bring in the directors from Deadlock and Deadpool 2, both did great balancing the seriousness and comedy of the merc with a mouth.
Gunn's hit and miss. I hope he does well with The Suicide Squad, though. I like the characters he's using, and he's a fan of Ostrander's Suicide Squad from the '80s, which I read. Still dig it, too. The Russos can bring it, but Endgame should have been 50% different. Reed doesn't impress me.
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
DC on the other hand is too serious.
Disagree. I don't want to see the return of Campy Batman and Campy Superman. But since everyone whines to no end about Man of Steel and Batfleck, that's what you're going to get. Well, we won't get Campy Batman yet, since I trust Matt Reeves' vision for a trilogy.
Because the Decision Makers at WB (whoever they are) not only have a fundamental misunderstanding of the stories and characters they own, they seem to have complete disdain for the audience and creators trying to make those stories and characters.
Seems like it's AT&T, not WB or DCU. That's what I'm telling you. The only lingo they speak is that of dollar signs, decimal points, zeros.
Seems like it's AT&T, not WB or DCU. That's what I'm telling you. The only lingo they speak is that of dollar signs, decimal points, zeros.
I just see the end results are a mess. Whose fault that ultimate is, I don't know.
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