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How do we teach World War II, and not talk about the Holocaust, or the internment camps Japanese American citizens were incarcerated in after Pearl Harbor? Or dropping atomic bombs on Japan?
Earlier in this thread, I made the comment that I felt that the totality of the race-themed movies coming out nowadays led to the skewed impression that white people are always the instigators of racism, and never its victims. This comment of yours actually reinforces my position. You listed three things about World War II. What did they all have in common? Yep, the fact that they were committed by white people, with two of the three being committed against non-white people.
Now, please hear me, I am NOT defending the Holocaust. I am not at all saying that white people aren't capable of evil. We are, and those stories are certainly appropriate to tell. (FYI, I DO defend the dropping of the atomic bombs. And while I won't staunchly defend the internment, I do understand why it was done. But that's a discussion for the History forum.)
But, my larger point is, why did you choose examples from World War II that solely are about white people being bad? Why didn't you mention any of the atrocities committed by non-white people? Not a peep about the Bataan Death March, or the Rape of Nanking, or Unit 731, or the Japanese POW camps, or the Hell Ships . . . I could go on, but hopefully I've made my point. ALL of these stories are appropriate to being told when one wishes to discuss World War II. NOT just the ones that, when told in isolation, leave the subtle impression that white people are the only ones who are racist.
Earlier in this thread, I made the comment that I felt that the totality of the race-themed movies coming out nowadays led to the skewed impression that white people are always the instigators of racism, and never its victims. This comment of yours actually reinforces my position. You listed three things about World War II. What did they all have in common? Yep, the fact that they were committed by white people, with two of the three being committed against non-white people.
Now, please hear me, I am NOT defending the Holocaust. I am not at all saying that white people aren't capable of evil. We are, and those stories are certainly appropriate to tell. (FYI, I DO defend the dropping of the atomic bombs. And while I won't staunchly defend the internment, I do understand why it was done. But that's a discussion for the History forum.)
But, my larger point is, why did you choose examples from World War II that solely are about white people being bad? Why didn't you mention any of the atrocities committed by non-white people? Not a peep about the Bataan Death March, or the Rape of Nanking, or Unit 731, or the Japanese POW camps, or the Hell Ships . . . I could go on, but hopefully I've made my point. ALL of these stories are appropriate to being told when one wishes to discuss World War II. NOT just the ones that, when told in isolation, leave the subtle impression that white people are the only ones who are racist.
Because we were talking about how to teach history. Clara's point was that teaching history in all its' brutal honestly makes minorities feel unwelcome. I didn't mention racism by non-whites because it has little to do with what we are talking about. We really weren't even talking about racism.
White people have always been in power in this country, they have not been victims of institutional racism. I am 56 soon to be 57, and I cannot say I was ever the victim of any sort of institutional racism subtle or overt.
These movies are not made to make white people or black people "look" a certain way. Like all movies, they are simply stories. 12 Years a Slave, The Help, these were books, best selling books, that someone simply read and said "Hey, this person has a fascinating story, let's tell it on film". I feel like people are trying to make them much more then they are intended to be.
Why not put a happy face on these issues by re-releasing Disney's "Song of the South".
Those fables actually originated in Ghana and came to America in the minds of people taken as slaves. Yet, they held information that slave mothers thought important to teach their children.
The lesson of "Bre'er Rabbit and the Briar Patch" appears to be, "Know your enemy better than he knows you."
"Bre'er Rabbit and the Tar Baby" appears to teach the same lesson by subversion: "Don't mess with people you don't know."
I would love to see the "Bre'er Rabbit" fables rehabilitated and retold.
If you'd like to see two more superb films which did a great job of educating millions of Americans on the horrors of racism, I would also recommend 'Loving' and 'Hidden Figures' alongside the two equally stellar films mentioned by ocnjgirl.
As long as there are people in the position of calling slaves "immigrant workers" and putting that into text books, we will continue to need to accurately depict the worst aspects of slavery.
And to be honest, lynchings and beatings weren't the worst of it. There is no limit to the depravity men will practice upon other men and women when there is nothing society will do to restrain them.
I very much agree, Ralph. To me -- and I'm sure others will look at some other issue of slavery -- the most heinous aspect (aside from the very concept of enslaving a human being) was putting children as young as 7 to work in physical labor such as working in the fields.
Yes, I have. I really don't want to keep repeating myself, it's boring for everyone, but yes, that's the movie that started my sub conversation.
In my opinion, I wouldn't have taken my 13 year old black grand daughter (I don't have one, this is a friend) to see that movie, and expose her to the idea that a very very talented pianist in the 70's wasn't allowed to eat with his driver because the pianist is black. And he couldn't stay in the same hotels. And there was actually a publication, to help out black travelers so they'd know where they could stay without being turned away, or worse, in a "sun down town", murdered.
I wouldn't want my 13 year old granddaughter to know that.
But anyway, I won't repeat that again because I don't want to derail this thread further.
Why not? The basic concept of Jim Crow was explained to me when I was 5 when my grandparents took me south on a trip to visit my mother. I started to go into a bathroom that was labeled "for coloreds" and started to drink from a "colored water fountain". And you think a thirteen year old whose peers are involved in varying degrees of sex, alcohol, and drugs can't handle seeing the issues you are talking about in a move?
For some reason, people create a huge hyperbole about it, as if I want to erase history. I don't.
I just don't think the very specifics of cruelties done recently - legally - in the US to black people would be something I would focus her attention on.
Like, do you take your black friends to see Gone With The Wind? Not likely. It's not uplifting for them.
And now, I'm done. For those who still have questions about my own personal philosophy, just click on my name and you can read the exhaustive discussion already taken place in this thread.
But my Black friends have full options to watch GWTW. They may not like it, or they may see it through eyes that understand the faulty premise of the South's "lost cause".
Why not put a happy face on these issues by re-releasing Disney's "Song of the South".
That's an interesting point. I think Disney should re-release that, but for the purpose of exposing past attitudes. Great learning experience.
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