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Old 08-25-2019, 02:31 PM
 
Location: Maine
22,921 posts, read 28,273,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
Yes!

It was pure narrative. Everything that followed, to varying degrees, became bogged down in serving the long story-arc and assorted silliness (the pointless Han-Leia sexual tension, the flaccid cornball one-liners, the Disney-foreshadowing Ewoks, etc.).
The original STAR WARS may be the most brilliantly edited movie of all time. Every single scene either advances plot or develops character. There is not a wasted shot or scene. Every frame serves the story.

Even THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, which I love, had a lot of stuff that was thrown in for the special effects. And there are some pretty glaring plot holes. It's still a great movie. But STAR WARS is still superior in every way.
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Old 08-25-2019, 03:27 PM
 
Location: North America
4,430 posts, read 2,708,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
The original STAR WARS may be the most brilliantly edited movie of all time. Every single scene either advances plot or develops character. There is not a wasted shot or scene. Every frame serves the story.

Even THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, which I love, had a lot of stuff that was thrown in for the special effects. And there are some pretty glaring plot holes. It's still a great movie. But STAR WARS is still superior in every way.
There are plenty of plot holes in Star Wars (A New Hope, Episode IV, whatever), even when it stands alone. But that's all right because, ultimately, it's more or less a kids film (albeit one that is enjoyable for adults). It's not meant to stand up to analysis. However, beginning with Empire, the series is geared more towards adults (while still wanting to scoop up younger viewers, of course). That's when it begins to break down. It's kid sci-fi trying to appeal to non-kids.

In some ways, it's similar to Raiders of the Lost Ark, and all that follows in the Indiana Jones franchise. The first film was just a joyous hearkening back to the old serials of the 1940s, cocooned in that universe. But then came the second installment and, as with Empire, it was trying just a bit too hard.

Star Wars and Raiders didn't have to try. They just were. And therein lies their greatness; they were innocent. The sequels had lost their innocence.
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Old 08-25-2019, 04:50 PM
 
8,609 posts, read 5,618,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2x3x29x41 View Post
There are plenty of plot holes in Star Wars (A New Hope, Episode IV, whatever), even when it stands alone. But that's all right because, ultimately, it's more or less a kids film (albeit one that is enjoyable for adults). It's not meant to stand up to analysis. However, beginning with Empire, the series is geared more towards adults (while still wanting to scoop up younger viewers, of course). That's when it begins to break down. It's kid sci-fi trying to appeal to non-kids.
It isn't kid SF so much as pulp SF. Lone wolf beats the bad guy and (almost) gets the girl kind of stuff. Every principal character is an archetype.

Also, "beginning with Empire, the series is geared more towards adults" is false. Empire is more or less tonally consistent with the first film. But Jedi is a kids' movie. And so are the prequels. And (so far) the new films, with the exception of Rogue One, which has a vibe unfelt since 1980.
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Old 08-25-2019, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
44,259 posts, read 64,365,577 times
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Yeah.

The sequel trilogy sucks bc
1. TFA was basically ANH
2. No background given/no reason to care about anyone or anything
3. Horrible, pointless meandering writing
4. All unlikable characters
5. You can't even count on the books/surrounding media to fill in holes
6. There are crap tons of holes


My favorite movies are the OT, but my favorite time period is just pre-TPM (books) through IV.
All the best story-telling was pre-4...and the OT movies brought it all together for a good ending.

This sequel trilogy was unnecessary, boring, and pointless.

They should have stuck with stand-alone movies from 1-6 time period.
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Old 08-26-2019, 09:47 AM
 
8,609 posts, read 5,618,718 times
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"Help me, Obi Wan Favreau, you're my only hope!"
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Old 10-21-2019, 08:40 AM
 
1,672 posts, read 1,250,684 times
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Premiering the trailer at Monday Night Football-- the beer-soaked football game at 10pm-- is everything that's wrong about Disney-Lucasfilm. No wonder retail is up to their necks with unsold Star Wars toys.

Whatever you say about the prequels, Lucas targeted the young generation, knowing they would keep the franchise relevant in the future. The reason Disney brought back Palpatine is because he's gained a following with the generation... that grew up with the prequels.

At this rate, Star Wars will be forgotten by 2035, because the adults of that time won't have any affinity toward Star Wars to pass on to their kids.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:43 AM
 
28,670 posts, read 18,788,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc17 View Post
Premiering the trailer at Monday Night Football-- the beer-soaked football game at 10pm-- is everything that's wrong about Disney-Lucasfilm. No wonder retail is up to their necks with unsold Star Wars toys.

Whatever you say about the prequels, Lucas targeted the young generation, knowing they would keep the franchise relevant in the future. The reason Disney brought back Palpatine is because he's gained a following with the generation... that grew up with the prequels.

At this rate, Star Wars will be forgotten by 2035, because the adults of that time won't have any affinity toward Star Wars to pass on to their kids.

Not if they would only propagate the television animation following into the movies and television live action. They've built an entirely new young generation with Clone Wars and Rebels that they're just frittering away.


Although I think The Mandalorian might bring them in, inasmuch as the Mandalorian history and background was highly fleshed out in those two animation series. Those kids are far more aware of the Mandalorian saga than are people who have only watched the movies.
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Old 10-21-2019, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Maine
22,921 posts, read 28,273,802 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Although I think The Mandalorian might bring them in, inasmuch as the Mandalorian history and background was highly fleshed out in those two animation series. Those kids are far more aware of the Mandalorian saga than are people who have only watched the movies.
From everything I'm seeing, I don't think THE MANDALORIAN is aimed at kids. It's aimed at fans, the majority of which are adults.

That said, I think it is a HUGE error for a movie or TV show to "aim at kids," since more often than not that means two-dimensional characters, at least one cutesy or comic-relief sidekick, and every story wrapped up with a nice little bow. Such shows are written by people who don't have kids and have forgotten what it was like to be one.

Kids don't need to be pandered to or talked down to. In fact, they need stories that deal with things like death, grief, friendship, enemies, courage, and fighting evil. And they need those stories to be smart and true, not safe. Kids are smarter than most adults think they are. Kids know the world isn't safe.
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:09 PM
 
28,670 posts, read 18,788,917 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
From everything I'm seeing, I don't think THE MANDALORIAN is aimed at kids. It's aimed at fans, the majority of which are adults.

That said, I think it is a HUGE error for a movie or TV show to "aim at kids," since more often than not that means two-dimensional characters, at least one cutesy or comic-relief sidekick, and every story wrapped up with a nice little bow. Such shows are written by people who don't have kids and have forgotten what it was like to be one.

Kids don't need to be pandered to or talked down to. In fact, they need stories that deal with things like death, grief, friendship, enemies, courage, and fighting evil. And they need those stories to be smart and true, not safe. Kids are smarter than most adults think they are. Kids know the world isn't safe.

Well, Clone Wars and to some extent Rebels wasn't just for children.


Especially not Clone Wars. Check out the sequence at 2:00 in this video.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJYv73wp0JA
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Old 10-21-2019, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Maine
22,921 posts, read 28,273,802 times
Reputation: 31244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk View Post
Well, Clone Wars and to some extent Rebels wasn't just for children.


Especially not Clone Wars. Check out the sequence at 2:00 in this video.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJYv73wp0JA
I liked a lot of the writing in CLONE WARS and REBELS. But I just can't get past the craptacular animation.
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