Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The much heavier emphasis on runs and riffs emerging in churches in the Deep South, in particular the Mississippi River Delta.
"Emphasis" yes, but emerging in the black churches - not quite. But per the OP's comment:
'...can we all agree on whole african american females have better vocals and can carry a tune much better than Caucasian females'
That seems a subjective measure regarding style not intrinsic vocal capabilities. As some have noted you can't tell when whites use that style if it is or is not an African American - note I said African American not 'black' - as blacks have different styles all over the world.
Runs, riffs, melissma, fills,ect. are not unique to African American or blacks. AA's sure did emphasize it an it is much more likely to happen in certain styles of music like jazz. And certainly the comment about carrying a tune is sheer ignorance of many incredible white female vocalists. The fact that this person cites American Idol and his circle of friends as his sole data may be the problem here along with dumb stereotypes.
[i]That seems a subjective measure regarding style not intrinsic vocal capabilities.
Agreed. I was just pointing out that it was odd that an example of a "great" white singer was one who was heavily influenced by Black music. That's all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jathro
As some have noted you can't tell when whites use that style if it is or is not an African American
Disagree. Black vocal timbre, IMO, tends to be very distinctive. This is the case whether you are talking about Luther Vandross (American) or Tems (Nigerian).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jathro
Runs, riffs, melissma, fills,ect. are not unique to African American or blacks.
Agreed. I was just pointing out that it was odd that an example of a "great" white singer was one who was heavily influenced by Black music. That's all.
No, problem I was not trying to single you out per-se just in general to what has been said here.
Quote:
Disagree. Black vocal timbre, IMO, tends to be very distinctive. This is the case whether you are talking about Luther Vandross (American) or Tems (Nigerian).
Not sure what you are getting at here? Are you saying that there is some intrinsic 'black' timbre that whites don't have?
Simply as Per Wiki: Timbre is what makes a particular musical instrument or human voice have a different sound from another, even when they play or sing the same note.
I don't see this as absolute of one race or some broad category like 'black' people. Tems has been influenced heavily by AA music styles and moved to Britain shortly after birth. Some of her singing sections I couldn't tell what race it was from - others obviously influenced by modern AA's. Again, a popular style with blacks today but timbre abilities as unique to them - nah! Maybe I'm just missing something here. I'm no musicologist!
Not sure what you are getting at here? Are you saying that there is some intrinsic 'black' timbre that whites don't have?
Generally speaking, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jathro
I don't see this as absolute of one race or some broad category like 'black' people. Tems has been influenced heavily by AA music styles and moved to Britain shortly after birth. Some of her singing sections I couldn't tell what race it was from - others obviously influenced by modern AA's. Again, a popular style with blacks today but timbre abilities as unique to them - nah! Maybe I'm just missing something here. I'm no musicologist!
I simply disagree here. Bieber and JT have also been influenced heavily by Black music but no one would ever mistake their voices as "Black" voices. You seem to suggest that it's all about style, but I'm saying that you can usually tell when the singer is non-Black even when he/she has had exposure to Black culture and makes his/her best efforts to sound "Black."
06-09-2022, 04:31 PM
xd4t5gv
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Generally speaking, yes.
I simply disagree here. Bieber and JT have also been influenced heavily by Black music but no one would ever mistake their voices as "Black" voices. You seem to suggest that it's all about style, but I'm saying that you can usually tell when the singer is non-Black even when he/she has had exposure to Black culture and makes his/her best efforts to sound "Black."
Yes, but we are talking timbre specifically. I'm sure if they tried they could incorporate the timbre style if they wanted too. Your point about it not just being style is correct but that has more to do with culture and linguistics from which AA style music arose. Other blacks in other parts of the world not affected by or incorporating that culture and language (vocal patterns from creoles, accents, and dialects of American blacks) from which this style has been emphasized do not sound 'black' - sounding black seems to mean southern USA blacks and the music and singing style they have been known for. That's not some intrinsic black thing across the globe IMHO! Maybe there is some genetic aspects to timbre that I'm not aware of? I'd be interested!
Yes, but we are talking timbre specifically. I'm sure if they tried they could incorporate the timbre style if they wanted too. Your point about it not just being style is correct but that has more to do with culture and linguistics from which AA style music arose. Other blacks in other parts of the world not affected by or incorporating that culture and language (vocal patterns from creoles, accents, and dialects of American blacks) from which this style has been emphasized do not sound 'black' - sounding black seems to mean southern USA blacks and the music and singing style they have been known for. That's not some intrinsic black thing across the globe IMHO! Maybe there is some genetic aspects to timbre that I'm not aware of? I'd be interested!
That's not what I'm talking about all. I don't think it's a matter of culture. I think it's a matter of genetics. Just like it's a matter of genetics that people of West African ancestry--regardless of where they are in the world--have higher bone mineral density. You're obviously not going to find conclusive evidence of this as there's resistance to studying anything that might imply differences along racial lines, but that's my hypothesis anyway.
I don't think Tems sounds the way she does because she was influenced by Black American singers. There's a tonal quality to her voice that is unmistakably of West African origin--across the diaspora, whether it be the U.S., Barbados or Cameroon. That could be rooted in biological differences, or not, but the difference is strikingly obvious.
06-09-2022, 04:39 PM
xd4t5gv
n/a posts
This conversation brought to memory Iggy. I remember when she first came out talking all 'black' - no one could tell and she had no connection to the lifestyle or context from which these linguistic features arose but she just copied it for her music style to be more 'legit' and fooled a tone people.
This conversation brought to memory Iggy. I remember when she first came out talking all 'black' - no one could tell and she had no connection to the lifestyle or context from which these linguistic features arose but she just copied it for her music style to be more 'legit' and fooled a tone people.
By "no one" you must mean people who are not Black.
You also should keep in mind that recorded music is engineered.
06-09-2022, 04:48 PM
xd4t5gv
n/a posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee
That's not what I'm talking about all. I don't think it's a matter of culture. I think it's a matter of genetics.
It could be - I don't know. I have traveled to Africa and I don't see it unless it has been an influence on that culture.
Quote:
Just like it's a matter of genetics that people of West African ancestry--regardless of where they are in the world--have higher bone mineral density. You're obviously not going to find conclusive evidence of this as there's resistance to studying anything that might imply differences along racial lines, but that's my hypothesis anyway.
Could be something to research! There are differences for sure but I'm not sure the genetic aspect would be solely African. Genes that are only found in one population are rare and ones that cause phenotype traits are combos. In other words even if it was generally the case that more Africans had some genes it would be rare to not find anyone else (Asians, Whites, etc) not having them even if they happened to be in smaller % as a population.
Quote:
I don't think Tems sounds the way she does because she was influenced by Black American singers. There's a tonal quality to her voice that is unmistakably of West African origin--across the diaspora, whether it be the U.S., Barbados or Cameroon. That could be rooted in biological differences, or not, but the difference is strikingly obvious.
Possibly! West African is a large enough group and small enough compared to the rest of Africa to be such a population (genetically speaking) that would carry such effect and of course that region mostly having slaves brought here would follow this line of thinking. My limited travels in Africa were in Uganda so that might be irrelevant when looking at West Africa. Interesting though!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
