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If you're a fan of Camera Obscura (a band I really enjoy!) then you should check out Florence and the Machine's album Lungs - a brilliant, intense album with a female vocalist who has an incredibly powerful voice. I'm guessing you'll really like it; in particular, check out the songs Howl and Drumming.
I just listened to "Loyd I'm ready to be heartbroken"
I agree she has a nice voice. Song is pretty good, probably not great but real good!
Back to the debate though....why is this band and/or song not being put out there so listeners can hear it, like it, go out and buy it, and brag to friends about it? Where is the music producers? Do they not want to make money? What's the risk? That young thugs might abandan wrap for real music? Why? Why? Why?
I would kill to have a conversation with those who are in charge of the music industry and might only have one question.....WHY?
I just listened to "Loyd I'm ready to be heartbroken"
I agree she has a nice voice. Song is pretty good, probably not great but real good!
Back to the debate though....why is this band and/or song not being put out there so listeners can hear it, like it, go out and buy it, and brag to friends about it? Where is the music producers? Do they not want to make money? What's the risk? That young thugs might abandan wrap for real music? Why? Why? Why?
I would kill to have a conversation with those who are in charge of the music industry and might only have one question.....WHY?
I don't know. They're a relatively known band, even if they're not having singles on the radio. I mean, I know about them and I don't exactly have an ear to the underground.
My guess is it's easier to put out a Miley Cyrus song or something because teenagers will buy it. It's easy and quick money.
I just listened to "Loyd I'm ready to be heartbroken"
I agree she has a nice voice. Song is pretty good, probably not great but real good!
Back to the debate though....why is this band and/or song not being put out there so listeners can hear it, like it, go out and buy it, and brag to friends about it? Where is the music producers? Do they not want to make money? What's the risk? That young thugs might abandan wrap for real music? Why? Why? Why?
I would kill to have a conversation with those who are in charge of the music industry and might only have one question.....WHY?
I don't understand it myself. I saw Camera Obscura in concert a few weeks ago and there must have been 200-300 people in the club, tops. One of the best shows I have ever seen! Got to hang out with them at a pub across the street after the gig and my little group was the only ones in the place that even knew who they were.
Anyway...if Americans had any sort of good taste in music that band would be eating up the charts right now. But, alas...they are not "pretty, or "safe" to look at. Normal, everyday looking people can't put out pop music nowadays and expect to be massive..... It's ALL about the look (what you look like in the face, hair styles, and what clothes you are wearing) rather than the music.... Which is why I will always hate mainstream music with only a small handful of exceptions.
I agree with interpol76, it's all about image and style,and in my opinion most of that stinks.The people buying the junk that is out there now don't seem to know much about music and real talent. None of the popular acts play their own instruments,write their own music,or produce it. Guess I'll keep on with the old classics,and hope some of the old artist keep on making music.
I agree with interpol76, it's all about image and style,and in my opinion most of that stinks.The people buying the junk that is out there now don't seem to know much about music and real talent. None of the popular acts play their own instruments,write their own music,or produce it. Guess I'll keep on with the old classics,and hope some of the old artist keep on making music.
or you could go to myspace and click on your favorite genre and see what develops.
Another way I search for music is I go to pollstar.com, check out what concerts are coming to my area and find there myspace page to see If I like there sound.
us kids from the 80's are getting old we grew up in a diffrent era with some wicked rock bands that kids still listen too some of the new age stuff is missing some of the attitude and showmanship we had. most 80's bands were over the top and larger than life and that's what made them great.
I agree with you but I have noticed one thing about todays pop music when one compares it to music of the past...even the 80s....THE FANS !!!
Back in 1988 I saw Guns & Roses in concert, not only do I recall seeing the usual metal heads in the teens & early 20s with the long hair and tats but I saw a good many older folks too say past 40, some were even dressed up in fine clothes. Not long after that I saw Motley Crew and it was the same thing. All ages, all types.
Today for some reason it is more/less NOT accepted for say a 40 year old to be into hip hop, at least not at concerts anyway. For example one of my good friends is a big fan of the rapper Pitbull. He is 44. When he went to see Pitbull live, not only did so many of the other concert goers gave him the stares, he was telling me even Pitbull himself on stage stared at him for several minutes as if he was going to say "..hey grandpa..why are YOU here?"
I agree with you but I have noticed one thing about todays pop music when one compares it to music of the past...even the 80s....THE FANS !!!
Back in 1988 I saw Guns & Roses in concert, not only do I recall seeing the usual metal heads in the teens & early 20s with the long hair and tats but I saw a good many older folks too say past 40, some were even dressed up in fine clothes. Not long after that I saw Motley Crew and it was the same thing. All ages, all types.
Today for some reason it is more/less NOT accepted for say a 40 year old to be into hip hop, at least not at concerts anyway. For example one of my good friends is a big fan of the rapper Pitbull. He is 44. When he went to see Pitbull live, not only did so many of the other concert goers gave him the stares, he was telling me even Pitbull himself on stage stared at him for several minutes as if he was going to say "..hey grandpa..why are YOU here?"
LOL! I saw a comedian in his 40s who described going to a SLIPKNOT concert and the kids were looking at him like he was going to "drag them off to his van"!
Back to the debate though....why is this band and/or song not being put out there so listeners can hear it, like it, go out and buy it, and brag to friends about it?
Good question. I’ve tried to roughly break this into types of reasons (some of which has been mentioned already). I may be able to add to this later (or maybe someone else can help). What other reasons have I missed?
Reasons indie bands don’t make more mainstreamish music
1. Freedom -- independent labels exert minimal influence over the artists. This means experimentation and originality is valued over conformity and mimicry. Artists can realize tremendous creative freedom, something that may be partially or completely absent for mainstream/radio/mass consumption music. This can lead to unique sounds and musical styles and fusions, which is the antithesis of “mainstream.”
2. Priorities -- independent artists are usually anywhere from only mildly concerned to completely unconcerned with wealth, popularity, stardom, sales figures, radio or television exposure, or other trappings of so-called “success.”
3. Fences -- well somebody’s got to push the boundaries and try new things, otherwise it’s just one radio-friendly band or American Idol act trying to emulate the last one trying to emulate the last one trying to emulate the last one, each generational copy becoming more and more homogenized, bland, and tepid. Independent music explores sound and the elements of what humans call music such that eventually, years and years later, certain types become watered down and sanitized and over-produced and guided by megalabels to become tomorrow’s mainstream crap.
Reasons the music they do make isn’t more popular
1. Image -- you've simply got to have model looks to "make it." Small people care about looks, style, and "dance" moves more than notes, sounds, soul, complexities, lyrical ingenuity, or the creative impulse. Subsequently, some acts spend MUCH more time on image than on songwriting, creation, inspiration, musicianship, jamming, rehearsing, experimentation, etc. Nothing sells like sex, cool, fashion, etc. And no matter how talented an act and how amazing their music, if they don’t have IT, something, they’re not going to find much “mainstream success.”
2. Acquired taste/challenging/nuanced -- a fast food burger is easy. There's a restaurant on every corner. You don't even have to get out of your car. You don't even have to tell them exactly what you want, just say "#1" and a one-size-fits-all burger is thrown your way within a minute or two. You know exactly what you're getting and it's cheap and safe and extremely bland. It doesn't challenge your taste buds, it doesn't require acclimatization, and it takes virtually no effort to acquire or consume. And this $h1t is extraordinarily popular! Bud Light is easy too. Contrast that with fine dining in a fine restaurant. Or vintage wine. Appreciating this takes much more effort. It may be an acquired taste that the neophyte could not appreciate or even stomach. Or its subtle nuances may just be totally lost on the person used to big mac and fries. The quick and painless fast food meal may even appear “better” to some. But for those who can appreciate it, the experience is vastly more rewarding. Some may actually recognize the fine wine or the fine four course meal is infinitely better, but may not ever really want to exert the effort it takes to appreciate the setting, the rituals, and the food or drink itself. Why bother, the other stuff is plentiful, cheap, ubiquitous, all his idiot friends like it too, heck he can even eat it while pretending to drive. I probably don’t even need to complete this analogy.
3. Niche -- many successful companies in many different industries sell mainstream products to the masses as well as niche products to a drastically smaller audience. Why did Toyota sell the MR2 Spyder when its Camry and its SUVs were selling so well to hordes of mainstream car buyers? Because a tiny group (niche) of drivers appreciated a small, 2100 pound mid-engined two-seater with impeccable handling and dynamic qualities that go far beyond the predictable practicality of the Camry. The MR2 was never intended to sell millions of examples. In the music world, mainstream music is a Camry or generic SUV, appealing to people who treat a car, or music, as an appliance, serviceable but not endearing, soulless but omnipresent. You know what you’re getting and it’s safe and easy. Independent music is very often niche music. It was never intended to shift millions of units at Wal-Mart.
Reasons the music they make that’s really good isn’t “out there” everywhere
1. Distribution -- indie albums generally don’t appear on the endcap at your local Wal-Mart. Without a massive label-managed distribution deal and network, there’s not a lot that can be done to get this stuff out there. It comes with the territory. And radio? Forget about it! There’s an establishment that determines the stuff that gets on the radio, long before it ever gets out of the studio!!! Bands are groomed for radio play while signing and recording stuff. It’s not some conspiracy, it’s just the industry. Fortunately, technology including the internet has changed and continues to change these models.
2. Marketing -- see above, really. Who’s going to get the word out to the LARGE masses of people? Barsuk Records, run by a few dedicated music fans? I seriously doubt it. Yet the people who would actually appreciate the music in the first place (remember, your friends have never heard of it and it’s not on the radio) are willing and able to seek it out. Sites like Stereogum help too. I subscribed to Paste and CMJ magazines, which included monthly sampler CDs, for many years and found tons of great obscurities this way.
3. TV and film -- see above, again, really. Who makes the Grammys? Who’s doing halftime at important football games? Who does New Years Eve, SNL, MTV, teeny TV shows and movies, etc.? Fortunately again I see a couple shifts. Letterman, for example, seems to have some better-known-but-still-indie acts on from time to time. And car commercials and other commercials of all things have started to introduce people to off-the-beaten path music.
4. Fan chatter -- believe it or not, some fans don’t want to tell their friends! This may damp the popularity. I can see many reasons for this. They may want to keep this newfound bliss a secret of their own as long as possible. They may not want to spoil what they’ve found by letting the opinions of others intrude. They may believe that without having listened to many other groundbreaking acts, their friends may be ill-equipped to have any frame of reference at all for appreciating the nuances of this new music, or that they may be not acquainted with the experience of being challenged by music, having been spoon-fed most of their lives (this is why I usually keep quiet). They may desire for the artist to remain relatively obscure so as to preserve what makes them great in the first place. They may have an aversion to anything popular and remotely mainstream (usually due to prior experience with said mainstream media) and wish to see the act not fall into that model. They may just not care. The point is, word of mouth may not be what it was in the past. What spreads amongst one very close-knit and divergent group may not even register to the next group over.
5. Major labels -- obviously this isn’t true of every major label conglomerate out there, many of which actually have their own semi-indie branches here and there, but as a general statement, major labels like to go with what is more likely to make them money, and that is generally looked at as stuff that’s wholly similar to stuff that made them money in the recent past. It’s not a ground-breaking experimental album by Portugal.The Man or a whip-smart guitar-fueled opus by Cursive or heartfelt soulful folk music by Shearwater. These albums may garner extraordinarily positive critical reviews, and tremendous niche fan adoration, but they’re not going to draw in the sheeply masses who again treat music as interchangeable/background/appliance/style-over-substance. Particularly as John Gourley, Tim Kasher, and Will Sheff are not even pretending to be stylish, hot, or particularly good-looking. And this kind of music would never ever receive any radio play outside of the one radio station per large metro area that plays one hour per week of actual new music late on Sunday night.
-------------------------------
Now more than ever:
independent = music
mainstream/major label/radio = a crummy money-making scheme
Reasons the music they make that’s really good isn’t “out there” everywhere
1. Distribution-- indie albums generally don’t appear on the endcap at your local Wal-Mart. Without a massive label-managed distribution deal and network, there’s not a lot that can be done to get this stuff out there. It comes with the territory. And radio? Forget about it! There’s an establishment that determines the stuff that gets on the radio, long before it ever gets out of the studio!!! Bands are groomed for radio play while signing and recording stuff. It’s not some conspiracy, it’s just the industry. Fortunately, technology including the internet has changed and continues to change these models.
2. Marketing -- see above, really. Who’s going to get the word out to the LARGE masses of people? Barsuk Records, run by a few dedicated music fans? I seriously doubt it. Yet the people who would actually appreciate the music in the first place (remember, your friends have never heard of it and it’s not on the radio) are willing and able to seek it out. Sites like Stereogum help too. I subscribed to Paste and CMJ magazines, which included monthly sampler CDs, for many years and found tons of great obscurities this way.
3. TV and film -- see above, again, really. Who makes the Grammys? Who’s doing halftime at important football games? Who does New Years Eve, SNL, MTV, teeny TV shows and movies, etc.? Fortunately again I see a couple shifts. Letterman, for example, seems to have some better-known-but-still-indie acts on from time to time. And car commercials and other commercials of all things have started to introduce people to off-the-beaten path music.
4. Fan chatter -- believe it or not, some fans don’t want to tell their friends! This may damp the popularity. I can see many reasons for this. They may want to keep this newfound bliss a secret of their own as long as possible. They may not want to spoil what they’ve found by letting the opinions of others intrude. They may believe that without having listened to many other groundbreaking acts, their friends may be ill-equipped to have any frame of reference at all for appreciating the nuances of this new music, or that they may be not acquainted with the experience of being challenged by music, having been spoon-fed most of their lives (this is why I usually keep quiet). They may desire for the artist to remain relatively obscure so as to preserve what makes them great in the first place. They may have an aversion to anything popular and remotely mainstream (usually due to prior experience with said mainstream media) and wish to see the act not fall into that model. They may just not care. The point is, word of mouth may not be what it was in the past. What spreads amongst one very close-knit and divergent group may not even register to the next group over.
5. Major labels -- obviously this isn’t true of every major label conglomerate out there, many of which actually have their own semi-indie branches here and there, but as a general statement, major labels like to go with what is more likely to make them money, and that is generally looked at as stuff that’s wholly similar to stuff that made them money in the recent past. It’s not a ground-breaking experimental album by Portugal.The Man or a whip-smart guitar-fueled opus by Cursive or heartfelt soulful folk music by Shearwater. These albums may garner extraordinarily positive critical reviews, and tremendous niche fan adoration, but they’re not going to draw in the sheeply masses who again treat music as interchangeable/background/appliance/style-over-substance. Particularly as John Gourley, Tim Kasher, and Will Sheff are not even pretending to be stylish, hot, or particularly good-looking. And this kind of music would never ever receive any radio play outside of the one radio station per large metro area that plays one hour per week of actual new music late on Sunday night.
-------------------------------
Now more than ever:
independent = music
mainstream/major label/radio = a crummy money-making scheme
Yes.
Some young people fall prey to the Pitchforkian oneupsmanship of enjoying their exclusive-secret-cool obscure band. I remember how I felt when the general public became aware of Bruce Springsteen (yes this was many years ago.) Those listeners, in their pretentious way, are just as sheeply as anyone who buys mainstream stuff.
Of course, they may not all be *buying* the music.
And yes, now there are so many genres that word of mouth is not quite what it was years ago. The various listening groups may stay in their segregated little slots and not communicate with each other.
I don't think the Grammys have been relevant since I was a kid. Remember the self-deprecating irony with which Ian Anderson accepted Jethro Tull's heavy metal Grammy (over Metallica!)?
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