12-29-2013, 08:42 AM
Location: Planet Earth
21 posts, read
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Reputation: 11
Toll Bothers is a big production builder, so we're sure there are many good and bad stories from previous customers. However, would still be interested in comments by anyone who has dealt with them on new construction in SW FL, particularly at their Bonita Lakes developent and/or their new Valencia Lakes at Spanish Wells, both in Bonita Springs. The locations both look favorable. Do these merit consideraton if we're looking at new single-family home construction in the upper 300's range? Thanks so much for your thoughts.
12-29-2013, 04:34 PM
Location: Naples, Marbella Lakes
124 posts, read
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Reputation: 91
You have some options in that price range, both the communities you mentioned could work for you. I would also look at PALOMA its in the same location, they have been selling well and are priced lower that the Toll Bros, the community will have clubhouse, pool, fitness center, tennis courts etc and will be gated. You can get a single family home 3 beds and den with 2 baths and 2 car garage with tons of upgrades for low to mid $300,000. The monthly fees are also lower.
Last edited by Sunscape; 03-11-2014 at 07:19 AM ..
02-03-2014, 12:56 PM
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Visited a friend who has a home at the "Lakes". Nice home but $$$. They appear to kill you on the extras. Walls are paper thin and my bet is they use 3/8 sheet rock rather than 1/2 to save $$. Once again nice home but not for me.
03-10-2014, 05:50 PM
14 posts, read
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Reputation: 16
We recently visited Bonita Lakes, excited by the price/layout we were told about by our agent. As we were touring some models, we were discussing which layout/options would work best. Then we met with the selling agent and reality hit. He told us to add on at least another $100,000 for a pool and lot premium and minor upgrades. When we asked what most people spent on upgrades, he said most people spent an additional 10% of the base price on upgrades, but it could go much higher. Is this typical when buying new homes? I've seen listings on Zillow for new homes and assumed those were the prices for the homes. Not an additional $100,000+. Seems deceiving.
03-10-2014, 06:10 PM
Location: Mtns of Waynesville,NC & Nokomis, FL
4,782 posts, read
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Reputation: 6523
Slightly OT...
In our recent new house buying experience, the 'upgrades' range from pricey to expensive, and of the several big name builders we did DD on, all seemed to mark up every item/upgrade from ~30-50%, in our opin.
Extra wall outlets: ~$125-$175. 'Standard' Trailer park bath fixtures up'd to reasonable stuff, 3X the price of any big box home store, etc.
Pool: double+ what a good pool builder will charge, though the after build requires 'room', an ARC/ACC approval, and some ugly construction work in one's backyard, while living in your new joint.
Not beating on the builders; they all do it. Gross margins in the 'ups' are 30-50% vs the single/barely double digit margins the basic house works from.
Same for 'lots' in most developing communites: want to look at your neighbors screen lanai, or a golf course or 'preserve'. The latter two will be upcharged...
That "additional 10% of the base price on upgrades" sounds low to me, unless one is very prudent and simply wants the basic house, nearly 'as is'.
Wear dark glasses in the models, as they are decorated, optioned and polished to the nth degree.
It is what it is: the fever is back sort of, and the melt down and debacle of 2008/09 is a fading memory for many, builders and buyers.
OP: that 'high 300s' will quickly escalate into low to mid $400s, and can get to med high $400s with little effort.
GL, mD
03-10-2014, 07:53 PM
14 posts, read
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Reputation: 16
motordavid,
"That "additional 10% of the base price on upgrades" sounds low to me, unless one is very prudent and simply wants the basic house, nearly 'as is'."
I think you're right. The salesperson probably tried to make it sound better. We didn't talk about things like wall outlets and faucets - more general upgrades because I didn't actually think about those little things.
Your post makes me realize the cost will be even higher than I thought. I never bought a new house before and didn't realize it's such a different process. Having choices is nice and paying extra for those choices makes sense. Now I know that the base price listed isn't really reflective of anything realistic. A friend just told me she looked at a model home in a North Naples development and when she asked about the cost "as we're seeing it", she was told it was almost double the base price. She did admit the model had all the perks and the pool was beautiful. But it was several hundred thousand in extras.
03-16-2014, 10:39 AM
Location: Gulf Shore BLVD N
31 posts, read
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Reputation: 20
The base cost a nice new home is 200 per sqft plus the lot cost. Most builders for large communities have 6 month turn around times, also quality may vary on the same area depending on which subcontractor is doing the work. The models carry a heavy price tag usually if the home standard build is 565 the model is around 750 or could be higher. Out of the choice of GL , Pulte, and Toll I would look at Pulte but my favorite is minto they seem to have higher quality builds.
03-16-2014, 10:09 PM
14 posts, read
26,628 times
Reputation: 16
Agree about Minto but the floorplans didn't work for me. Nice salespeople.
03-18-2014, 04:54 PM
Location: Las Vegas
1,592 posts, read
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Reputation: 2878
Seems like the thing to do is go with what is included as standard for things like plumbing and lighting fixtures and upgrade later. Riverstone wants $1,000 for a Grohe kitchen sink faucet I can get for $300. You can't skimp on cabinets though, too much cost and hassle to gut and redo. I have heard it is hard to get good service people (electricians, plumbers etc) in Naples.
Any comments?
03-18-2014, 05:23 PM
Location: sittin happy in the sun :-)
3,645 posts, read
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Reputation: 1877
I don't build in Naples, bit further North....even back in the UK i had a policy , we make our money on the home , extras are charged at cost.............you can tee off a good client who is happy with everything by trying to take them for a few more bucks on extras they can easily see the cost of.
but then to be fair I am not a volume builder for whom the bottom line is king.............and have shareholders to appease
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Cost of living index
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 1, detached ($)
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure by units in structure - 3 or 4 ($)
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Commute - mean travel time to work (minutes)
Travel time to work - Less than 5 minutes (%)
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Average household size
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Occupied housing units (%)
Vacant housing units (%)
Owner occupied housing units (%)
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Vacancy status - For rent (%)
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%)
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Poverty status for native-born residents (%)
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Air pollution - Air Quality Index (AQI)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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2004 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Kerry)
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2016 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Place of birth - Born in state of residence (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
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Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
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Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting, and mining (%)
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Occupation diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
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People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
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People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
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People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
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People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
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People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
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People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
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Residents speaking English at home (%)
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Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
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Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
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Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)