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When buying in my community, the neighborhood HOA didn't have a rule against parking in the driveway overnight. Out of all of the neighborhoods as well as the master, only one did (this is a "double gated" community - one to get into the development, one into their neighborhood).
So no problem parking in the driveway, right?
Nope. Rule was passed prohibiting it, set by the master HOA. Started to get grief from the management company. Let the HOA president know, and his answer was "you bought in this community you should know the rules". Of course, it wasn't a rule before I purchased
There you go...similar to our situation. Wasn't a rule when we all had the shutters approved and installed..suddenly they're looking to make a new rule.
In this case, they've specifically used wording targeting part-time residents which seems discriminatory. Living in an area that has so many snowbirds, it doesn't seem right or lawful.
All good stuff above...fwiw, Florida Statutes Chapter 718 covering COAs, discusses hurricane shutters. Surprisingly, Chapter 720 HOA, (single fam homes), does not.
It wasn't clear to me if the OP lives in a COA or in an HOA, within their community.
I rec'd the OP study their original governing Documents very carefully. If the no hurricane shutter except during storms is in those Docs, then the OP will have little legal recourse. If the Docs don't discuss shutters, timing etc, or do provide for normal shutter on lanai regardless of 'time', then the OP has some leverage.
If the HOA or some member of the HOA wants to 'change the rules' from allowing lanai shutters anytime to only allowing them during 'storms', it would require that topic to be published, then an open B of D meeting to be held, and at least a majority vote 'for' that change for it to become a new reg in the Docs. Some HOA Docs require 60%, some require 75% Yeah vote to change a Documents rule such as that, some just a 'majority' of the voting population as long as the Doc's 'quorum' is met.
If there was/is wording that prevents the usual lanai opening span to be shuttered, and it has not been 'enforced', the usual 'grandfathering' probably will not be sufficient.
HOA and COA Documents are the rigorous rule, good or not so good, and can sometimes even be more draconian than state law.
Fwiw, our previous Naples area community HOA allowed for even the metal shutters up, (if painted to match house), while we were absent...our current Escape Winter house in a Venice area community allows for our Kevlar like fabric shutter screen to be down while we are absent all summer. It, the POA and ACC even allow for metal shutters up on our rear windows, within our screened rear lanai area, again painted to match. No other windows/doors are allowed to be shuttered except during 'named' storms.
OP needs to read their Docs and see what applied to them when they bought their property/'signed' the Docs in that community. If boilerplate is there, you won't have much relief; if not there, a Board redirection will require a serious vote.
My 50Cts...
GL, mD
All good stuff above...fwiw, Florida Statutes Chapter 718 covering COAs, discusses hurricane shutters. Surprisingly, Chapter 720 HOA, (single fam homes), does not.
It wasn't clear to me if the OP lives in a COA or in an HOA, within their community.
I rec'd the OP study their original governing Documents very carefully. If the no hurricane shutter except during storms is in those Docs, then the OP will have little legal recourse. If the Docs don't discuss shutters, timing etc, or do provide for normal shutter on lanai regardless of 'time', then the OP has some leverage.
If the HOA or some member of the HOA wants to 'change the rules' from allowing lanai shutters anytime to only allowing them during 'storms', it would require that topic to be published, then an open B of D meeting to be held, and at least a majority vote 'for' that change for it to become a new reg in the Docs. Some HOA Docs require 60%, some require 75% Yeah vote to change a Documents rule such as that, some just a 'majority' of the voting population as long as the Doc's 'quorum' is met.
If there was/is wording that prevents the usual lanai opening span to be shuttered, and it has not been 'enforced', the usual 'grandfathering' probably will not be sufficient.
HOA and COA Documents are the rigorous rule, good or not so good, and can sometimes even be more draconian than state law.
Fwiw, our previous Naples area community HOA allowed for even the metal shutters up, (if painted to match house), while we were absent...our current Escape Winter house in a Venice area community allows for our Kevlar like fabric shutter screen to be down while we are absent all summer. It, the POA and ACC even allow for metal shutters up on our rear windows, within our screened rear lanai area, again painted to match. No other windows/doors are allowed to be shuttered except during 'named' storms.
OP needs to read their Docs and see what applied to them when they bought their property/'signed' the Docs in that community. If boilerplate is there, you won't have much relief; if not there, a Board redirection will require a serious vote.
My 50Cts...
GL, mD
That was quite a relaxed HOA to allow the metal shutters to remain up. Should have moved there!
We are in an HOA, single family. Read docs before purchasing home, no specific mention of rolling security shutter one way or the other, so this is all new.
As an aside: they want to eliminate the fabric shutter screens altogether; won't even approve those going forward. That's not pertinent to this topic, just indicative of this new board's perspective.
Again, if it isn't in your Documents, any proposed changes will require 'notice', a meeting, and a vote where at least 'the majority' agrees with changes.
Having been recording secretary and then prez of our HOA in Naples, I understand peoples' concern with HOA boards...I always felt that my volunteer job was to make The Rule Book smaller, not larger, and to use common sense in the community.
If your board is doing as you describe they either have bad info, are mislead by mgmt/legal, or simply think they can do what they want. Or a combo...
You might send them a reg'd letter asking where in the Docs these provisions currently are, point out Chap 720, (which few have read), and request a discussion on proposed items.
I assume your HOA has an outside mgmt person/team? And, that mgmt co has a hired gun lawyer?
Anyone in an HOA might spend 10 mins reading through their Documents and then reading Fl Statutes Chap 720...yes, there is some boiler plate but it is not Law School 1 reading.
GL, mD
Again, if it isn't in your Documents, any proposed changes will require 'notice', a meeting, and a vote where at least 'the majority' agrees with changes.
Having been recording secretary and then prez of our HOA in Naples, I understand peoples' concern with HOA boards...I always felt that my volunteer job was to make The Rule Book smaller, not larger, and to use common sense in the community.
If your board is doing as you describe they either have bad info, are mislead by mgmt/legal, or simply think they can do what they want. Or a combo...
You might send them a reg'd letter asking where in the Docs these provisions currently are, point out Chap 720, (which few have read), and request a discussion on proposed items.
I assume your HOA has an outside mgmt person/team? And, that mgmt co has a hired gun lawyer?
Anyone in an HOA might spend 10 mins reading through their Documents and then reading Fl Statutes Chap 720...yes, there is some boiler plate but it is not Law School 1 reading.
GL, mD
Many rules and regulation changes as well as community standards changes do not require a vote of the membership. Just a majority of the Board. One needs to read both the Declaration and FS 720 carefully. The answer will be different from community to community depending on what is included in the Declaration and what is covered by R&Rs and community standards and the authority granted to the BOD in the Declaration.
Again, if it isn't in your Documents, any proposed changes will require 'notice', a meeting, and a vote where at least 'the majority' agrees with changes.
Having been recording secretary and then prez of our HOA in Naples, I understand peoples' concern with HOA boards...I always felt that my volunteer job was to make The Rule Book smaller, not larger, and to use common sense in the community.
If your board is doing as you describe they either have bad info, are mislead by mgmt/legal, or simply think they can do what they want. Or a combo...
You might send them a reg'd letter asking where in the Docs these provisions currently are, point out Chap 720, (which few have read), and request a discussion on proposed items.
I assume your HOA has an outside mgmt person/team? And, that mgmt co has a hired gun lawyer?
Anyone in an HOA might spend 10 mins reading through their Documents and then reading Fl Statutes Chap 720...yes, there is some boiler plate but it is not Law School 1 reading.
GL, mD
Many thanks for the info and link, Motordavid ~ I have combed through it extensively yet a specific mention of the shutter closed for security, and an HOA's right to regulate it isn't something I've found yet.
Your attitude toward voluteering for your HOA was correct and surely appreciated by your neighbors. Same as we had at our previous home.
This board is operating as if they can do what they want. We're going to have to insist on a majority vote ~ whatever the neighborhood wants, we'll abide by. We won't be bullied by this small group of individuals.
And here we thought we were just going to put our feet up and relax...
Vesuvius,
wjj brings up a valid and real point: if your community Docs are written with certain aspects of 'rules and regulations' being able to be change, eg amendable by elected Board, then you will have little firm ground to stand on, imo.
Neither our previous Naples winter house community, our current Venice area community, or our western NC Mtn Home community have those kind of vague, loose amendable 'rules and regs' in the Docs.
I rec'd reading your Documents carefully; the key will be some vague clause on amendable rules and regs, I suspect.
GL, mD
Easy.....follow the Rules promulgated by the HOA, or work to change them, otherwise don't b itch
That comment isn't helpful, and since you have no actual knowledge to offer, your contribution is worthless.
No one is bitching here. This thread is to inquire as to anyone's awareness of statutes, laws, precedents or codes supporting this issue.
If you don't understand the question, don't waste your time trying to answer.
In a neighborhood of both year-round and part-time residents. The community is gated at the entrance, and is partially walled or fenced. There are townhouses and modest size single-family homes. The homes do not back up close to each other, only water or woods, and a good distance from community clubhouse, playground, and pool. Nice spacing throughout.
Some houses have a roll-down hurricane/security shutter installed on the back lanai covered porch alcove where the sliding door is located. They average 8 feet on the townhouses, up to 10-12 feet on the singles. Most of the lanais are screened with pool cages. The hurricane/security screens are fairly unobtrusive, hardly noticeable unless you're right on the homeowners' property. All shutters were installed with HOA Board approval.
There were a couple of break-ins, and a car stolen a few years ago which inspired some neighbors to install security systems, and these shutters. Of course, they are very convenient during hurricanes too, instead of wrestling with large panels.
Many residents close the shutter every night, and open it during the day. Some close the shutter while traveling, as we do, and others close the shutter when they go back to their primary homes in the spring.
We spend summers up north at our lakehouse, and to see the kids & grandkids. We have always had the shutter closed while we're gone.
NOW ~ this HOA board has decided that they don't like the part-time homeowners leaving this single hurricane/security shutter down in their absense. They are trying to institute a rule that states part-time residents may not leave the shutter down while they are not in the home (which seems unfair to single them out), and includes people away from their homes for a long period of time.
I've never heard of an HOA trying to place a rule like this. I've seen these shutters kept down during the off-season throughout Naples for YEARS. We sold our older home of 12 years (where we kept our shutter down in the summer), to move into this newer neighborhood a few years ago. We had great people on our old HOA board who never mentioned a rule like this. They still don't, as told to us by friends on that board who we still visit in that neighborhood. (Actually, I mentioned this proposal to them, and they think it's stupid!)
I understand that, according to the Florida state law, ALL hurricane shutters need to be removed from the windows 7-10 days after a hurricane has passed. We all make sure that's done.
Since we're only talking about one shutter on the back porch, which is used for not only weather, but security, does the HOA have the legal right to create and enforce such a rule? They're threatening violations and fines if this passes.
Or, is there a Florida state / Collier county law anywhere that states an HOA cannot interfere with a homeowner's right to secure their property?
Thank you for any information you can provide!
From what I understand if it is not in the covenants currently any rule changes needs to be voted on. This is your weapon against HOA's that try to make rules the residents don't want. Now it is different if it is in the covenants and this board is wanting to enforce it.
ETA: How "nice" of your previous board to "allow" hurricane shutters. HOA's must allow hurricane shutters. Also, AFAIK there is no state laws governing shutters, there are local laws so you should check with your county.
Last edited by NorthofHere; 03-15-2018 at 10:30 AM..
Hmmm I'm in Cape Coral and the snowbirds that do have shutters leave them closed when they leave for summer, hey that's hurricane season.
If they enforce this I guess snowbirds would have to leave a key with a trusted neighbor to close their shutters if a storm was approaching.
People have too much dam time on their hands, closed shutters don't bother my time any
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