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Again, I've met unprofessional people in any walk of life. Why would you expect the police to be any different? The expectation of professionalism is something present in all fields, so it's not that the expectations are different across professions. There are good and bad people in all walks of life, both powerful and weak.
You can choose to live in other cities if you don't like your local police force just as you can choose to go to a different mechanic or restaurant. It really isn't that different. Last I checked, no one held a gun to anyone's head regarding where to live. If people don't like a city's police department, don't move there.
And the reality is this: the chances of a black male's life being threatened by a police officer are miniscule compared to the chances of a black male's life being threatened by another black male. If "black lives matter" is really the issue, let's take a close look at who is taking black lives. The statistics back this up completely, yet we don't hear much about that. I wonder why.
Finally, Ferguson lost the public's trust based on lies. Trust goes both ways. As I said, there are liars on both sides of the narrative. But the truth of the matter is that lying and saying someone had their hands up and was surrendering and got shot by a cop is just as bad as shooting someone in the back as they run away and then planting a stun gun on them. There are liars and deceivers on both sides of the spectrum. Both types of people need to be removed from society.
I'm sorry, I still can't get over this silly comparison to mechanics or servers. Police are paid public employees charged with our protection. I think there is a wee bit more professionalism expected there. If you are satisfied with abusive cops being "just a fact of life", then so be it. I am not.
Also, the police are paid by the citizens. It's not the same as avoiding a restaurant because you don't like the food or service. If you live in a city and think that the police aren't professional, it is within your rights to try to change that.
I don't cotton to telling someone not to move to a city because the police department is bad - maybe they are relocating for a job - or to move away for the same reason. A police officer is supposed to protect and serve. Most do, but I do believe that the younger folks are not always trained like they were say, 30 years ago.
Usually, in a police force, the problem comes from the top down. If it is an elected position, there is an obvious solution.
I'm sorry, I still can't get over this silly comparison to mechanics or servers. Police are paid public employees charged with our protection. I think there is a wee bit more professionalism expected there. If you are satisfied with abusive cops being "just a fact of life", then so be it. I am not.
If the only barometer you place on professionalism is whether one is a paid public employee or not, then that's naive. At the end of the day, it's just another guy doing a job. Some do it well, and others do it poorly.
I'm not saying you have to like it -- I'm saying that's how it is, whether you like it or not.
Also, the police are paid by the citizens. It's not the same as avoiding a restaurant because you don't like the food or service. If you live in a city and think that the police aren't professional, it is within your rights to try to change that.
I don't cotton to telling someone not to move to a city because the police department is bad - maybe they are relocating for a job - or to move away for the same reason. A police officer is supposed to protect and serve. Most do, but I do believe that the younger folks are not always trained like they were say, 30 years ago.
Usually, in a police force, the problem comes from the top down. If it is an elected position, there is an obvious solution.
Of course you can work to weed out the bad apples. My point was specifically to the idea that anyone is somehow "stuck" with a police force. Look, people take plenty of metrics into account when they are deciding where to move to, and they then weigh those metrics out and make a decision. A city's police force and reputation are one of those metrics. If someone researches a city and knowingly moves to one with a shoddy or abusive police force, then that's their problem. If someone doesn't research and moves somewhere without knowing, then that's their problem too. And if, at that point, someone decides they made a rash decision and moved somewhere where the police presence is somehow untenable, ad they somehow missed that when planning for the safety and future of their family, then either elect new political arms for the police apparatus or get out -- no one is forcing anyone to stay anywhere.
And at the end of the day, we agree. I too believe most (a majority) police serve and protect and generally do well with a tough job. The notion that these isolated incidents around the country (many of which are not even factual and are more urban legend than fact, like Ferguson) are not representative of the mindset of the American police officer as a whole, and people should not lose sight of the importance of the police in the order and structure of society.
Of course you can work to weed out the bad apples. My point was specifically to the idea that anyone is somehow "stuck" with a police force. Look, people take plenty of metrics into account when they are deciding where to move to, and they then weigh those metrics out and make a decision. A city's police force and reputation are one of those metrics. If someone researches a city and knowingly moves to one with a shoddy or abusive police force, then that's their problem. If someone doesn't research and moves somewhere without knowing, then that's their problem too. And if, at that point, someone decides they made a rash decision and moved somewhere where the police presence is somehow untenable, ad they somehow missed that when planning for the safety and future of their family, then either elect new political arms for the police apparatus or get out -- no one is forcing anyone to stay anywhere.
And at the end of the day, we agree. I too believe most (a majority) police serve and protect and generally do well with a tough job. The notion that these isolated incidents around the country (many of which are not even factual and are more urban legend than fact, like Ferguson) are not representative of the mindset of the American police officer as a whole, and people should not lose sight of the importance of the police in the order and structure of society.
Except that it has become a national epidemic. Where, exactly, are you proposing people move if they don't like the way the police are behaving?
Your desire to overlook the problem and associate it with bad service you would get from a vendor is, honestly, a little frightening. This is not the same as 'voting with your dollar'. That is not comparing apples to oranges, that is comparing apples to giraffes.
The police are becoming a problem and, at the moment, citizens don't have much recourse in addressing the issue. The more like minded people talk about the problem, the more likely we are to band together to see that the problem is addressed.
Except that it has become a national epidemic. Where, exactly, are you proposing people move if they don't like the way the police are behaving?
Your desire to overlook the problem and associate it with bad service you would get from a vendor is, honestly, a little frightening. This is not the same as 'voting with your dollar'. That is not comparing apples to oranges, that is comparing apples to giraffes.
The police are becoming a problem and, at the moment, citizens don't have much recourse in addressing the issue. The more like minded people talk about the problem, the more likely we are to band together to see that the problem is addressed.
Except that it has become a national epidemic. Where, exactly, are you proposing people move if they don't like the way the police are behaving?
Your desire to overlook the problem and associate it with bad service you would get from a vendor is, honestly, a little frightening. This is not the same as 'voting with your dollar'. That is not comparing apples to oranges, that is comparing apples to giraffes.
The police are becoming a problem and, at the moment, citizens don't have much recourse in addressing the issue. The more like minded people talk about the problem, the more likely we are to band together to see that the problem is addressed.
A national epidemic? Please cite statistics indicating such. An example of an epidemic would be that 93% of all black males killed are killed by other black males. I don't think such a statistic exists for the police, but I would love to see a link to such a claim.
Again, rating the police on a threat to life scale, they are way, way down the list compared to violence perpetrated on black Americans by other black Americans. What problem is it that you seek to have addressed if it isn't saving lives? Is it saving lives of only those who are killed by a miniscule fraction of bad cops? Why not have the discussion on who takes the majority of lives?
A national epidemic? Please cite statistics indicating such. An example of an epidemic would be that 93% of all black males killed are killed by other black males. I don't think such a statistic exists for the police, but I would love to see a link to such a claim.
Again, rating the police on a threat to life scale, they are way, way down the list compared to violence perpetrated on black Americans by other black Americans. What problem is it that you seek to have addressed if it isn't saving lives? Is it saving lives of only those who are killed by a miniscule fraction of bad cops? Why not have the discussion on who takes the majority of lives?
You want to know what scares me? I am a law abiding, tax paying citizen. I've seen countless stories like the one linked below where militarized police forces raid the wrong house with little or no warning that they are coming in, only to find that they've raided the wrong house. This, of course, after they've violently apprehended the wrong people (if not flat out murdered them) and often in front of children.
I've also seen countless stories of people impersonating police officers in order to gain entry into a home.
As a law abiding, tax paying citizen, I have taken it upon myself to guarantee the safety of my family and myself. I am well armed. If someone were to try and forcibly enter my house claiming to be police, I have two choices and very little time to decide. Should I grab a weapon and defend my family or should I let these thugs violently enter my house and very likely scar my son for life... if not flat out killing someone in my family? That's a pretty tough choice to make in a split second.
If I defend my family and my property and live to tell about it, I am likely to face criminal charges if I kill a police officer, even if they enter my house illegally. If I let the police illegally invade, they are very likely to ruin my family and our lives forever.
The reason I have to worry about this scenario is because police departments in this country have been militarized and there are rarely, if ever, consequences for the illegal actions of police departments. These known thugs are ALWAYS going to get the benefit of the doubt.
I am sure you will want to claim this type of incident is isolated but do a Google search on 'police raid wrong house' and you will get more than 8.5 million hits. Now I am not going to imply that there have been 8.5 million incidents like that but how many is too many? I would say any number greater than zero and I am sure there have been more of these incidents than zero.
The way this kind of crap stops is when citizens band together and say enough is enough, NOT by just moving to a new area. I think you're starting to see citizens standing up to it. It's unfortunate that so many people had to die at the hands of those that think 'protect and serve' translates into 'bully, assault, murder and then cover it up' but this is where we find ourselves.
Police officers are killing more than 1,000 citizens a year in the US. I am not a black male so I am less concerned about the leading cause of death among black males nor do I care about the gap between the leading cause of death among black males and those killed by the police. What I care about is the 1,000+ unchecked and unpunished murders being committed by police officers in this country every year.
I think people with a blind allegiance to the police are a big part of the problem and that attitude disgusts me. I wish there was a way to guarantee that only those that support police brutality and murder could be the only victims of it. I suspect, under those circumstances, that you might support a different position...
Of course, if the police can do in-house investigations (why shouldn't we trust them?? After all, they are here to protect US!), then they can clear themselves of wrongdoing, and narrate the story as they please.
JWims, I ask where you draw the line? A few bad apples would be one thing if there wasn't an EXTENSIVE history of police abuse, corruption, incompetence, and cronyism in various jurisdictions across the country. Let's not forget about the amount of firepower the police have at their fingertips these days. What bothered me about Ferguson more than the shooting of Mike Brown was the police arrogance and response to the protests -- show up in riot gear and tear gas protesters and confiscate media cameras. That is an ATTITUDE issue. The attitude is "we're the police, and you do what we say." It's the attitude that brings back memories of middle and high school bullies. Now I think I know where they went.
There are certainly departments that handle things better than others. I think Nashville's police chief has done a good job of getting ahead of a lot of the problems, especially on the PR end. I also think it was the right move to decommission this officer. Should he be given a second chance? That depends on his history, but assuming it is pretty clean, I'm OK with that. What needs to be scrubbed out is the attitude. The attitude displayed says "I will kill you if you don't do what I say."
I'll admit that part of the reason I left Knoxville was because of its police force. Every darned one of them I met was rude and arrogant, even the one who came to my house after it was burglarized and vandalized. My mother, an 83 year old great grandmother, was pulled over by an overzealous cop in Knoxville because he claims she proceeded through a 4-way stop when it was the cop's turn, not hers (all witnesses said it was indeed my mom's turn) and held her in her car AT GUNPOINT while backup arrived.
So while I don't have any statistics to back up the claim that the police these days are less professional and more obnoxious, it's certainly been my experience that they are, at least the ones in Knoxville. Then again, I think people in general are less professional and more obnoxious today than 30 years ago, not just the police.
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its - possession
it's - contraction of it is
your - possession
you're - contraction of you are
their - possession
they're - contraction of they are
there - referring to a place
loose - opposite of tight
lose - opposite of win
who's - contraction of who is
whose - possession
alot - NOT A WORD
Last edited by JMT; 05-08-2015 at 09:02 AM..
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