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It was kind of sarcastic, but recently local officials heard from an Austin-area representative who discussed how they instituted toll roads to pay for new roads, with the tolls going away after a few years. I'm not sold yet.
More lanes aren't going to help here. To me, alternative modes will.
I agree with you, more lanes won't help. We definitely need alternate modes. Having said that, the most evil thing to ever happen to Texas (and there is plenty of evil there to go around) was toll roads.
It's funny that Austin officials are championing that plan because that's not even close to what they're actually doing in Texas or in Austin. I know that's what they say they're doing but the reality is much different.
It would definitely shock a lot of people here if they did some of the things in Nashville that they are doing in Texas. For example, when dealing with investors for road projects, the state is taking land away from land owners through imminent domain, then turning around and offering that land (for free) to the investors to build tollways. So, in several instances, the investors say it would be to hard to compete with existing freeways because of existing infrastructure and location (they are moving the toll roads to the outskirts of town, similar to loops), so the investors are negotiating to take over existing freeways to toll and then building new roads for free travel that are WAY outside of town.
They are also taking away existing freeway lanes and building what they call access roads on the perimeter of the freeway lanes. The access roads have stop lights at every intersection. They are tolling the highway lanes that have flyovers at intersections and forcing non-toll paying traffic onto the access roads with all the stop lights. In some cases, they are adding additional stop lights where they aren't needed, just to 'encourage' drivers to use the toll lanes.
Their claim that once a certain amount has been paid, the roads convert to free is a bold faced lie. Look up the Toll Road 45 project between San Antonio and Austin. The toll road investors claim that they are losing money because no one is using the toll road (it is about 30 miles outside both Austin and San Antonio and adds an hour to the trip), so they are having to extend the contract for collecting tolls to indefinite because toll road maintenance out paces the toll fees they are charging.
The next thing they did on Toll Road 45 was increase the speed limit from 70 mph to 80 mph to encourage people to use it. That didn't work so they worked with TxDOT to lower the speed limit on the existing freeway, again to 'encourage' drivers to use the toll ways.
They also do the bait and switch of saying the toll roads will cost between $0.35 and $2 a mile (the $2 rate being charged at peak times). Then once the roads are built they will present a new suitability assessment that says the actual rates should be between $2 and $4 a mile and guess who is going to win that negotiation? So, imagine a toll road between downtown and Franllin - at rush hour, that trip will cost you about $65 one way. Of course, it will only cost you a little over $30 one way during off peak times. What, you say you don't want to pay $30+ just to drive home? No problem, just take Franklin Pike.
If that isn't enough to scare the beejeebus out of you with regard to toll roads, look up the absolute catastrophe that is the Trans Texas Corridor. The leader of the project is quoted as telling voters, when he thought he wasn't being recorded, 'you have 3 options - toll roads, slow roads or no roads'. This after former Governor Perry talked about a future in America with nothing but interstate toll roads and how that could be the biggest tax revenue generator this country has ever seen.
What is happening in Texas is an absolute CATASTROPHE, unless you happen to be one of the toll road investors. Did I mention that all the toll companies Texas does business with are not American companies?
How expensive would it be to put new rail down if existing rail cant be found. To me, the ROW costs in Brentwoid eould be huge. I still think that project could hit a number the state/local gov't would never want to pay
I would love the Music City Star to expand into WillCo but i just dont see how they do it.
And that is why the roads here will be like Atlanta. No one wants to pay for it.
Austin traffic? Horrible! Perpetual traffic jam most of the day.
I agree with you, more lanes won't help. We definitely need alternate modes. Having said that, the most evil thing to ever happen to Texas (and there is plenty of evil there to go around) was toll roads.
It's funny that Austin officials are championing that plan because that's not even close to what they're actually doing in Texas or in Austin. I know that's what they say they're doing but the reality is much different.
It would definitely shock a lot of people here if they did some of the things in Nashville that they are doing in Texas. For example, when dealing with investors for road projects, the state is taking land away from land owners through imminent domain, then turning around and offering that land (for free) to the investors to build tollways. So, in several instances, the investors say it would be to hard to compete with existing freeways because of existing infrastructure and location (they are moving the toll roads to the outskirts of town, similar to loops), so the investors are negotiating to take over existing freeways to toll and then building new roads for free travel that are WAY outside of town.
They are also taking away existing freeway lanes and building what they call access roads on the perimeter of the freeway lanes. The access roads have stop lights at every intersection. They are tolling the highway lanes that have flyovers at intersections and forcing non-toll paying traffic onto the access roads with all the stop lights. In some cases, they are adding additional stop lights where they aren't needed, just to 'encourage' drivers to use the toll lanes.
Their claim that once a certain amount has been paid, the roads convert to free is a bold faced lie. Look up the Toll Road 45 project between San Antonio and Austin. The toll road investors claim that they are losing money because no one is using the toll road (it is about 30 miles outside both Austin and San Antonio and adds an hour to the trip), so they are having to extend the contract for collecting tolls to indefinite because toll road maintenance out paces the toll fees they are charging.
The next thing they did on Toll Road 45 was increase the speed limit from 70 mph to 80 mph to encourage people to use it. That didn't work so they worked with TxDOT to lower the speed limit on the existing freeway, again to 'encourage' drivers to use the toll ways.
They also do the bait and switch of saying the toll roads will cost between $0.35 and $2 a mile (the $2 rate being charged at peak times). Then once the roads are built they will present a new suitability assessment that says the actual rates should be between $2 and $4 a mile and guess who is going to win that negotiation? So, imagine a toll road between downtown and Franllin - at rush hour, that trip will cost you about $65 one way. Of course, it will only cost you a little over $30 one way during off peak times. What, you say you don't want to pay $30+ just to drive home? No problem, just take Franklin Pike.
If that isn't enough to scare the beejeebus out of you with regard to toll roads, look up the absolute catastrophe that is the Trans Texas Corridor. The leader of the project is quoted as telling voters, when he thought he wasn't being recorded, 'you have 3 options - toll roads, slow roads or no roads'. This after former Governor Perry talked about a future in America with nothing but interstate toll roads and how that could be the biggest tax revenue generator this country has ever seen.
What is happening in Texas is an absolute CATASTROPHE, unless you happen to be one of the toll road investors. Did I mention that all the toll companies Texas does business with are not American companies?
Thx, bspray. I'll look into it. That's some tricky bid'ness!
And that is why the roads here will be like Atlanta. No one wants to pay for it..
It always bugs me when the discussionof mass transit comes up and I hear someone say they don't want it because they "don't want to become like Atlanta."
It's possibly the most ridiculous thing you could say aside from, perhaps, "we don't need public transit! We're not NYC."
Thank the glue-sniffing comments section from the Tennessean for that last gem.
Thx, bspray. I'll look into it. That's some tricky bid'ness!
To put some context around what is happening in Texas, imagine you are downtown and want to get to Murfreesboro. Now, imagine that all the counties worked together to acquire (though imminent domain) all the land necessary to build 840 as a toll road. As you can imagine, almost nobody would drive out to 840, just to pay a toll to drive to Murfreesboro. So, the toll companies work with TDOT to change the toll road from 840 to I-24. Now I-24 is the toll road and 840 is the freeway - to be the equivalent of Texas, I-65 would not exist.
Sure, you can also take Murfreesboro road all the way out, with stop lights all the way. Or, you could drive out to 840 and add an hour to your trip. Or, you could pay $40 one way, off peak, on the toll roads. All the while, state politicians will be patting themselves on the backs for building new roads without tax payer dollars. Those same politicians would also be taking healthy donations from the toll road investors but, no need to worry about that, they certainly have our best interests in mind.
The door was opened for tolls when the Tennessee Tollway Act passed. Though it was supposed to be limited to just a couple of projects, the fact it passed is letting the cat out of the bag.
The last I heard was the Hadley Bend Connector was DOA. So wonder how long it will take them to try and leverage tolls elsewhere?
Toll roads never die and are landing spots for political insiders, at least here in IL. They were supposed to be free when the bonds were paid off, which was scheduled for 23 years ago. I'd recommend fighting them tooth and nail, because once you have them they aren't going away.
We have a tax in the metro area designated for mass transit, and at least part of the gas taxes here go to pay for public transit. https://www.illinoispolicy.org/illin...ret-temporary/
To put some context around what is happening in Texas, imagine you are downtown and want to get to Murfreesboro. Now, imagine that all the counties worked together to acquire (though imminent domain) all the land necessary to build 840 as a toll road. As you can imagine, almost nobody would drive out to 840, just to pay a toll to drive to Murfreesboro. So, the toll companies work with TDOT to change the toll road from 840 to I-24. Now I-24 is the toll road and 840 is the freeway - to be the equivalent of Texas, I-65 would not exist.
Sure, you can also take Murfreesboro road all the way out, with stop lights all the way. Or, you could drive out to 840 and add an hour to your trip. Or, you could pay $40 one way, off peak, on the toll roads. All the while, state politicians will be patting themselves on the backs for building new roads without tax payer dollars. Those same politicians would also be taking healthy donations from the toll road investors but, no need to worry about that, they certainly have our best interests in mind.
I rather see a toll road than a tax, tags surcharge or gas tax, because only users pay that way. Otherwise taxes, tags surcharge or gas tax will get whittled away to some new fancy shiny need (I’m looking at you Greenway projects) siphoning off of the revenue for the roads. Sadly, you overwhelmingly hear how they rarely spin the revenue side of the business down.
Though there are a FEW examples of them stopping the toll collections, so it is possible I guess. Just need bullet proof SIMPLE wording to guarantee the end of collection.
In KY:
The Natcher Parkway (Owensboro–Bowling Green Parkway) was a toll road from its opening December 15, 1972.
Audubon Parkway was a toll road from its opening December 18, 1970 December 18, 1970.
Under Kentucky law, toll roads cease toll collection once their construction bonds are paid, either by collected tolls or other sources. Both had their tolls removed on Tuesday, November 21, 2006
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