MTA planners unveil three scenarios related to transit (Knoxville, Midtown: hotel, buy)

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by nashvols

It always bugs me when the discussionof mass transit comes up and I hear someone say they don't want it because they "don't want to become like Atlanta."

It's possibly the most ridiculous thing you could say aside from, perhaps, "we don't need public transit! We're not NYC."

Thank the glue-sniffing comments section from the Tennessean for that last gem.

Atlanta is a fine city with a functional mass transit system.

Mass transit in developing cities like Nashville is a interesting subject to say the least.

Ideally Nashville could throw 2 to 3 billion at a modest LRT system and have it up and operating in 3 years or so. It would do so much for the development of the city.

I dont think its realistic considering the employment numbers are not yet approaching 100k for downtown. Everyone is too spread out for it to work given Nashville size and density levels. American cities just dont develop the same as they do in China and Europe.

Nashville can develop a 1st class BRT system and generate decent ridership within the inner loop and gradually develop into more advanced forms of public transit as the city grows.

IMO, Nashville has to step up in the transit department. If people are going to pay 1200+ to live in the gulch or midtown, they have to get a city lifestyle with it. I work with relocating singles all the time in the Midwest and the first thing that come out of their mouth after budget is rail access and commuting time.

[nashvols]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I dont think its realistic considering the employment numbers are not yet approaching 100k for downtown. Everyone is too spread out for it to work given Nashville size and density levels. American cities just dont develop the same as they do in China and Europe.

You keep saying this, but you aren't sharing your data. What density levels do you think Nashville needs in the core to support this? When you consider Downtown employment, do you also consider that Midtown is a major employment center with a university and a trio of major hospitals (Vanderbilt employs about 20k by itself)?

Yes, as a whole, Nashville is spread out...but the CBD is pretty compact, and there are a lot of dense clusters where transit can center around.

[Hey_Hey]

I crunched numbers for Vandy and Belmont and combined the two institutions have 45,000 students and employees. If you combine just Vandy and Belmont with the CBD you do get to around 100,000 commuters, and that doesn't include any of Music Row, Midtown, or West End.

[GWoodle]

Originally Posted by Hey_Hey

I crunched numbers for Vandy and Belmont and combined the two institutions have 45,000 students and employees. If you combine just Vandy and Belmont with the CBD you do get to around 100,000 commuters, and that doesn't include any of Music Row, Midtown, or West End.

You may dig around for the kind of numbers the Amp was talking about in setting up a corridor from White Bridge into Vandyland, Midtown, downtown & out to the East side. It may have worked as just the first leg of a BRT system. You need something else to connect the burbs with the Amp.

Since then add in the new BRT lite on Charlotte & now on Nolensville to go with Gallatin & Murfreesboro. Lately have noticed some fancy new bus BRT shelters on Charlotte.

[nashvols]

I did find a bit of info I have been looking for (had to find the right search terms) that I remember coming across a little while back. It's an analysis of downtowns and other major (urban) employment nodes. It's called Defining Downtown.

The methodology is interesting...I don't want to mix anything up too badly, so you're welcome to read it in depth on their website, but basically it uses he Census tracts that primarily lie within a 1 mile radius of the core Census tract.

In Nashville's case, there are two major employment nodes, and they are right next to each other (in fact, the core tracts actually touch each other). The two nodes are Downtown and Vanderbilt University and Medical Center.

Here are the numbers (2010/2011):

Downtown
-67,317 worker population
-5,916 resident population (this number has changed quite a bit)

Vanderbilt
-47,434 worker population
-13,074 resident population

Total
-114,751 worker population
-18,990 resident population

These two tracts represent an area of about 3.5 square miles (~32,000 worker population per square mile/~5,300 resident population per square mile)


Now, when you include the periphery areas (you can look at the map, but notable areas include Chestnut Hill, Wedgewood-Houston, Waverly Belmont, Melrose, 12 South, Hillsboro-West End, West End Park, Richland Park, Cherokee Park, Sylvan Heights, McKissack Park, Watkins Park, Historic Buena Vista, Salemtown, Germantown, North Capitol, Edgefield and East End), it ends up being about 18 square miles. The metrics aren't perfect. The boundaries aren't perfect (they are determined by tracts, which can be irregular), and they are relatively large (that's roughly the size of Providence, RI).

Downtown (area)
-86,615 worker population
-25,922 resident population

Vanderbilt (area)
-80,751 worker population
-45,218 resident population

Total
-167,366 worker population
-71,140 resident population


While that may not properly illustrate the "downtown" numbers but it does show that the core of Nashville has plenty of critical mass to support increased mass transit.

It should also be noted that these are 2010/2011 numbers, so while that may seem very recent, a LOT has happened in the last 5 years (and more is to come). This area has seen several thousand residential units built and U/C, and there are a few million square feet of office space and thousands of job announcements.

[bigcitymike]

I would think the MPO site has pretty much all the stats everyone seems interested in regarding Middle TN multi-modal transportation needs.

[bigcitymike]

This just hit the web (though there's a reporting error regarding Gallatin's current mayor)

Lawmakers eye private sector boost for regional transit

With multiple Middle Tennessee mayors on hand, state lawmakers rolled out legislation Wednesday they say could set a framework for future mass transit projects in the Nashville region and send a signal to the private sector to be part of it.
The bill, which has strong bipartisan support, would allow both the state and local governments to contract private businesses to build, oversee and profit from large-scale transit projects in Tennessee.
It’s only enabling legislation, but with mass transit solutions proving elusive in Nashville, the public-private partnership proposal is getting billed as a way for the state legislature to take a step toward addressing the region’s growing traffic congestion.
“We’ve been talking about the problems for some time,” said Sen. Bill Ketron, R-Murfreesboro, who has co-sponsored the bill with Sen. Jeff Yarbro, D-Nashville. “And if you drive on I-24, or drive on I-65, or come in on I-40, it’s continuing to get worse every day.
“This sends a signal to those consortiums in the private sector to come here to Tennessee and start putting your investments here for infrastructure that will take us further down the road than we’ve ever seen before.”

THE TENNESSEAN
State could be key for Nashville regional transit hopes




Supporters say the bill to allow what are commonly called “P3s” for transit would provide “one more tool in the toolbox” to address transit.
They also claim that tapping a private company to oversee transit services would be significantly cheaper than leaving it to the government.
The public-private partnership bill has attracted rare accord among many Democrats and Republicans in the legislature.
At a Wednesday press conference to unveil the proposal, Ketron was joined by Yarbro and Rep. Charles Sargent, R-Franklin, who is the sponsor of the House version of the bill. Others at the event included Sen. Jim Tracy, R-Murfreesboro; Rep. John Ray Clemmons, D-Nashville; and Rep. Jason Powell, D-Nashville.
Franklin Mayor Ken Moore, who chairs the Middle Tennessee Mayors Caucus, Gallatin Mayor Jo Ann Graves, members of Nashville Mayor Megan Barry’s administration and representatives of the Nashville Area Chamber of Commerce were also on hand.
“At the end of the day, there’s no Democratic traffic jams or Republican traffic jams,” Yarbro said. “While Sen. Ketron and I might be in different political parties, our districts include one of the busiest corridors in the state of Tennessee.
“The ‘P3’ initiative will hopefully create a framework for us to have innovation and investment in public transportation throughout this region,” he said. “This allows different counties to be able to work together on a project and combine sources of revenue and identify the best path forward.”

THE TENNESSEAN
Nashville transit options unveiled: Go big or small?




Twenty-nine states have some type of public-private law, but few have them just for transit. Public-private partnerships have enabled Denver to build a rail line from its airport to downtown and facilitated light rail projects in New Jersey.
The arrangement would give companies the ability to build infrastructure on public land and rights-of ways. Both parties would share financial risks, responsibilities and transit services.
The state proposal come as the Metro Transit Authority is in the process of finalizing a long-term transit master plan for Nashville.
Among three possible scenarios is an ambitious $5.4 billion plan that would have a regional focus and include light rail on major corridors, commuter rail from Nashville to Clarksville and so-called “freeway bus rapid transit” on interstates.
Meanwhile, Ketron has pushed a monorail to connect Murfreesboro and Nashville.
“We’re going to need all the help we can get, and this bill is going to go a huge ways if we can get it passed toward really making options available to solve our congestion and mobility in Middle Tennessee,” said Steve Bland, Metro Transit Authority CEO.

THE TENNESSEAN
Nashville explores 'freeway BRT,' driverless cars




Transit has emerged as a top issue in Nashville and surrounding counties as the area has grown. An additional 1 million people are expected to move into Middle Tennessee over the next 25 years, but the area lags behind comparable regions when it comes to transit systems.
“Those new challenges may require new solutions,” said Marc Hill, chief policy officer of the Nashville Area Chamber of Commerce, which backs the legislation.
He pointed to Florida, Texas and Virginia as states similar to Tennessee with similar laws.
The state’s discussion on transit comes two years after Republicans in the state legislature helped defeat Nashville’s proposed bus rapid transit project called The Amp.
But while that project dealt with a single corridor in Nashville, the idea of regional transit has gotten a warmer reception in the legislature.

THE TENNESSEAN
Planners seeks resident input on Nashville transit plans




Gov. Bill Haslam recently said the state must play a role in regional transit efforts in Middle Tennessee, but did not identify a solution. He didn’t commit state funds for transit, either.
State lawmakers on Wednesday weren’t ready to say whether or when the state would be in position to commit significant funds for transit. Instead, they framed public-private partnerships as a way to infuse private funds faster than public dollars could ever be approved.
“We can get there much quicker with private funds doing the financing, and we put up the property or whatever it takes, and they get it up and running,” Ketron said.
Reach Joey Garrison at 615-259-8236 and on Twitter @joeygarrison.

[nashvols]

Totally forgot to include the link in my post:

Defining Downtown

[mjtinmemphis]

Originally Posted by nashvols

You keep saying this, but you aren't sharing your data. What density levels do you think Nashville needs in the core to support this? When you consider Downtown employment, do you also consider that Midtown is a major employment center with a university and a trio of major hospitals (Vanderbilt employs about 20k by itself)?

Yes, as a whole, Nashville is spread out...but the CBD is pretty compact, and there are a lot of dense clusters where transit can center around.

What metropolitan area with under 2 million residents with similar density and layout of Nashville has funded a functional lrt system? How much do you think it will costs with what type of ridership could Nashville generate? 10 to 20 yrs from now the area might be ready but not now.

Salt Lake City Utah is the closest city that I know of. Metro msa is slightly over a million. csa is over 2 million and urbanized area is slightly larger than Nashville. Downtown population 15k as of 2010. Just as a comparison.

[nashvols]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

What metropolitan area with under 2 million residents with similar density and layout of Nashville has funded a functional lrt system?

Salt Lake City Utah is the closest city that I know of. Metro population csa is over 2 million and urbanized area is slightly larger than Nashville.

Pinning down Nashville's density is kind of hard to do. A lot of people use city or county or urbanized area statistics. What does that do for transit? Unless you can break it down to tracts, it's pretty much useless.

Nashville is quite spread out....but the core density is very similar to a lot of other southern cities (not talking city limits).