Bambi's mother is in our back yard under the apple tree.

[harry chickpea]

"I realize animals can be cruel to one another in nature, that wasn't my point. I was responding to how he deals with nature with the quoted statements below. I'm not passing judgement, just sayin'. It just struck me as unusual that he would come to the Nature forum to post on a thread where people were admiring nature, and he went into details about how he helped kill it when necessary. My cats sometimes get a mouse when it comes in the house, but if I get to it first I put the mouse outside. If I had a rabbit trapped in a drain pipe I would help release it, not feed it to another animal. And mice carry deer ticks as well as the deer, in fact our dog is currently being treated for Lyme disease. I just don't believe in unnecessary killing, preferring to deal with nature in a more "humane" fashion. I don't even kill spiders, I catch and release them outdoors. And we get some pretty ugly, huge wolf spiders, even in the house sometimes. "

I have nothing against admiring nature - for what it is. People will do what people do, animals will do what animals will do, plants..., spiders..., bugs... the same. As for the fox, I was pretty sure she had kits, had been scratching at the pipe for a while, and at first I was wondering if a kit was stuck in there. When I came out, she remained at a distance. The rabbit popped out of the pipe, took off, and AFAIK, nature took its course. I happen to think that of the pests, foxes are one of the nicer ones. They are also a LOT more rare than rabbits and rodents.

There is a rub - any interference one way or the other will have an effect on the balance of the system. Fewer wildcats and wolves, more deer. More deer, more chances of epidemics among the deer population, and so on. As the salt lick example points out, it can be as easy to kill with kindness as with intent.

Humane is a tricky word to ascribe a perfect definition to, especially since it has been co-opted by animal extremists. Thoughtful stewardship is, IMO as important, if not more so. It is impossible to have thoughtful stewardship if you only have a fantasy "knowledge" of animals or plants.

If you or anyone else wants to release mice that can (as you noted) carry deer ticks, and is willing to recognize that such action might contribute to a pet dog getting Lyme, AND the person is willing to care for the pet, that is not my decision. There is responsibility being shown, and yet there is also a certain amount of irresponsibility. If I'm not the dog or the mouse, it doesn't matter to me. (I leave ticks out of the moral equation, because I hate those suckers and would gladly exterminate every last one from the planet.) psst- I like wolf spiders and jumping spiders, and also release them outside when practical. I've nothing against recluses, but I do try to eliminate their food supply for our own safety.

As I commented before, I know I am raining on a parade. I know I am destroying beautiful fantasies that are like angel food cake topped with whipped cream. The coarse peasant bread of nature, once you appreciate the realities of it, has much more substance, much more flavor, and is infinitely more interesting and nourishing for all.

[Bizemirates]

its always good to see birds and animals feed.. i used to watch my rabbit eating soo closely.. sometimes a little sound of tick tick cames as he bit those grass stras.. ahhh.. totally adoring

[lifelongMOgal]

Originally Posted by redwolf fan

cats do a great job controlling the rodent population on farms.

Would you folks only prefer poison as a control ?

Cats are indescriminant hunters. Feral cats do incalcuabley severe damage to native wild bird populations.

[CraigCreek]

And feral cats are feral because of irresponsible humans, somewhere back down the line.

There are humane groups who practice catch, neuter, and release programs to help control the feral cat population. Feral kittens can be tamed, btw, if they are young enough and are separated from their feral mother and hand-fed or taken in by a domesticated nursing mama cat, and can make excellent pets. Feral adult cats are another story in most cases, so catch, neuter, and release is the best way to deal with them.

There are also many individuals who leave food and water for feral cats, but unless this well-intentioned practice is combined with the neuter/release program, it just contributes to the population problem (though it certainly improves the lot of the feral cats, whose health is immeasurably improved by receiving regular meals and whose hunting habits may decline in response).

BTW, I hope no one here would ever allow their pet cats to have kittens "to show the children the wonders of birth", or "because mama cat loves those little kitties so much", or "because kittens are so cute". Unless you have good homes lined up for each of those likely-to-be-four-to-six cute little kittens, get mama cat spayed. If you just have to have kittens, there are plenty waiting in every animal shelter in this country.