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Old 12-13-2012, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,809 posts, read 6,898,053 times
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I have to wonder at the enjoyment and glee some people get from killing (yes, KILLING - never mind using the word culling to make yourself feel better) animals for no good reason except to enjoy killing. I don't understand it and never will.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 15,125,609 times
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Do you eat meat, do you enjoy it?

Just having someone else do your dirty work is just removing you from the process of killing.
So do, you enjoy a nice steak dinner?


What you so conveniently dismiss is the need, and the service KILLING those crows and starlings serve to the eco system and to AG.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
I have to wonder at the enjoyment and glee some people get from killing (yes, KILLING - never mind using the word culling to make yourself feel better) animals for no good reason except to enjoy killing. I don't understand it and never will.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:37 AM
 
11,523 posts, read 14,575,129 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
I love birds,I even had a pet bird and we raise chickens layers and meat birds.
They are tasty BBQ'ed ,fried, or baked.

Except for the handful of recipes for preparing crow, why in this day of rampant animal rights fanaticism, should we continue to hunt and kill an animal that has no real monetary value? The reason is that the crow has and continues to exhibit behavior that ranges from annoying to highly destructive In agricultural areas, be it the pecan plantations of the south or the cornfields of the mid-west, crows continue to account for extensive crop damage, including the nasty habit of pulling up sprouting grain in the spring. Western crows have the worst reputation for crop damage, especially because of their habit of congregating by the thousands to feed on cultivated fruits and nuts. Often, they end the day by raiding a nearby watermelon field in order to save a trip to a distant watering place. Under such conditions, total crop loss can occur.

Where their ranges overlap, crows severely impact the annual waterfowl populations. When the hens begin laying, crows break open and eat the eggs. Later they will return and devour the fledglings. In the 40's a biological survey was conducted that really shows the damage crows can cause to the waterfowl in the Canadian "Duck Factory". It was shown that crows in close proximity to duck nesting areas took an average of 110 to 120 eggs or fledglings per crow per year, approximately 20,000,000 ducks. During the same year, sportsman only took 11,000,000 ducks. A common slogan of the time was "Kill a crow, Save a duck". At a time when waterfowl seasons are being dramatically reduced and even canceled, the survival rate of waterfowl at their breeding grounds is paramount. Shooting crows can make a real difference. Crows also take a heavy toll on upland game birds, including direct responsibility for at least 4 1/2 percent nest depredation on ruffed grouse and in California crows have been implicated in the endangerment of the Mojave desert tortoise. They also prey on small mammals such as rabbits and squirrels and have been known to kill prey as large as newborn lambs.[Crow Busters - Why Hunt Crows


More recently, crows have been identified as a carrier of the west Nile virus, an encephalitis type virus that has killed at least 155 people to date.
Human beings are the ones who've done most of the damage all around to anything they get their hands on. I'm not an animal "fanatic," just an observing human. I think people just don't like to see other people kill and mame for sport. It sickens your average person--that is human.

Last edited by Nanny Goat; 12-14-2012 at 05:46 AM..
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Old 12-14-2012, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
18,754 posts, read 17,986,975 times
Reputation: 14731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Upstate Nancy View Post
Human beings are the ones who've done most of the damage all around to anything they get their hands on. I'm not an animal "fanatic," just an observing human. I think people just don't like to see other people kill and mame for sport. It sickens your average person--that is human.
Until we learn how to control our population there will always be problems with wildlife. More humans have to be fed. We create more food that many scavengers (like crows) thrive on. Euthanasia and population control are subjects for for our politics and controversial subjects forum or great debates.

Crows are smart and intelligent birds. But; we can have too much of anything – including crows. Even if you think you are a great animal rights person and don't eat meat – you will still not buy fruit that crows and squirrels have enjoyed first. Nor should you buy fruit that scavengers, that could have transported disease, nibbled on or pecked at first.

Like I stated earlier: I have not killed a crow in at least seven years. But this last growing season was extremely dry and crows and squirrels did not leave me one piece of fruit. I have five large apple trees and four large pear trees. Some years I have picked bushels of fruit. I would not have had a great harvest this year – but I still would have had a harvest if it was not for the scavengers.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,908,330 times
Reputation: 8910
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
I love birds,I even had a pet bird and we raise chickens layers and meat birds.
They are tasty BBQ'ed ,fried, or baked.

Except for the handful of recipes for preparing crow, why in this day of rampant animal rights fanaticism, should we continue to hunt and kill an animal that has no real monetary value? The reason is that the crow has and continues to exhibit behavior that ranges from annoying to highly destructive In agricultural areas, be it the pecan plantations of the south or the cornfields of the mid-west, crows continue to account for extensive crop damage, including the nasty habit of pulling up sprouting grain in the spring. Western crows have the worst reputation for crop damage, especially because of their habit of congregating by the thousands to feed on cultivated fruits and nuts. Often, they end the day by raiding a nearby watermelon field in order to save a trip to a distant watering place. Under such conditions, total crop loss can occur.

Where their ranges overlap, crows severely impact the annual waterfowl populations. When the hens begin laying, crows break open and eat the eggs. Later they will return and devour the fledglings. In the 40's a biological survey was conducted that really shows the damage crows can cause to the waterfowl in the Canadian "Duck Factory". It was shown that crows in close proximity to duck nesting areas took an average of 110 to 120 eggs or fledglings per crow per year, approximately 20,000,000 ducks. During the same year, sportsman only took 11,000,000 ducks. A common slogan of the time was "Kill a crow, Save a duck". At a time when waterfowl seasons are being dramatically reduced and even canceled, the survival rate of waterfowl at their breeding grounds is paramount. Shooting crows can make a real difference. Crows also take a heavy toll on upland game birds, including direct responsibility for at least 4 1/2 percent nest depredation on ruffed grouse and in California crows have been implicated in the endangerment of the Mojave desert tortoise. They also prey on small mammals such as rabbits and squirrels and have been known to kill prey as large as newborn lambs.[Crow Busters - Why Hunt Crows


More recently, crows have been identified as a carrier of the west Nile virus, an encephalitis type virus that has killed at least 155 people to date.
Maybe our problem is the over abundance of people and our infringement on the few wild areas that are left. Maybe we should, instead of killing desperate wildlife, start limiting our own growth. It is we who are upsetting the balance of things on this planet.

Last edited by goldengrain; 12-16-2012 at 12:01 PM..
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,908,330 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
You haven't spent any time on a farm or ranch have you?
You have a very charmed view.
The crows get tilled in, their use fertilizer.
crows and starlings all add cost to the bottom line these costs are pased on to you as higher food prices.

let alone their determinant effect on the rest of the animals and birds.

There killing is promoted by the dnr and usda.


Don't even try to humanize them .
Other than humans, they are the only animal known that has solved a problem using three tools. This is not humanizing them, this is reality. When you kill them you should be aware of what you are destroying.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,406 posts, read 18,908,330 times
Reputation: 8910
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquietpath View Post
I have to wonder at the enjoyment and glee some people get from killing (yes, KILLING - never mind using the word culling to make yourself feel better) animals for no good reason except to enjoy killing. I don't understand it and never will.
They are either ignorant and clueless or mentally deviant.
In either case, I doubt if these are everyday folk whom we pass on the street.
You notice that they also take joy in the sadness that they cause others by telling of their exploits.
Deranged individuals. Unthinking, unfeeling, superficial.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 15,125,609 times
Reputation: 3614
It was not infringement that brought the starlings here was it?
So you are saying we should cull our own race to limit growth?

The damage has been done man is not going to pull back.

Crows have benefited by mans expansion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
Maybe our problem is the over abundance of people and our infringement on the few wild areas that are left. Maybe we should, instead of killing desperate wildlife, start limiting our own growth. It is we who are upsetting the balance of things on this planet.



mentally deviant, define "your" term as I don't recall it from class.
Deviance and mental illness often go hand-in-hand. While not all deviants are considered mentally ill, almost all mentally ill persons are considered deviant.

adjective 1. deviating or departing from the norm; characterized by deviation: deviant social behavior.


noun 2. a person or thing that deviates or departs markedly from the accepted norm.

To the hunter, farmer and rancher the behavior of shooting crows is not a deviate behavior.

Our own Govt supports it.

You wear your heart on your sleeve while ignoring reality.






Quote:
Originally Posted by goldengrain View Post
They are either ignorant and clueless or mentally deviant.
In either case, I doubt if these are everyday folk whom we pass on the street.
You notice that they also take joy in the sadness that they cause others by telling of their exploits.
Deranged individuals. Unthinking, unfeeling, superficial.

So instead of name calling and playing JR. armchair physiologist why not back up your position? Post some facts or at least use one fact to back up your propaganda and your attempts to discredit someone...

Do you read and comprehend what has been posted or do you just take pot shots at others?

crows may be taken (i.e., shot) without a permit in certain circumstances. USFWS 50 CFR 21.43 (Depredation order for blackbirds, cowbirds, grackles, crows and magpies) states that a Federal permit is not required to control these birds "when found committing or about to commit depredations upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, livestock, or wildlife, or when concentrated in such numbers and manner as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance.

They are constantly on the move and because of this hyperactivity require large amounts of food to maintain body metabolism. An adult crow fills its crop eight to ten times a day. They eat anything, from road kill to dumpster scraps, and among their favorite treats are bird eggs. Crows are nest raiders. Besides eating the eggs, they will pluck a young bird or duckling from its nest without hesitation. The Department of Agriculture conducted a survey of crow predation on waterfowl nesting grounds in the U.S. supplemented with data from Canada. The facts revealed that crows destroyed one-third of waterfowl egg production. So for every crow I harvest, I figure I save a dozen ducks, not to mention songbirds.


You see, I like sitting under the shade tree with my family, listening to the native song birds while enjoying a Duck dinner.

If i have to be deviant to enjoy that, so be it.

Last edited by snofarmer; 12-16-2012 at 03:15 PM..
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Old 12-27-2012, 08:43 PM
 
731 posts, read 674,030 times
Reputation: 1716
Hey Snowfarmer, when you kick the bucket I hope the crows pick you.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:10 AM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,168,742 times
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When i die i wish i could be left under a hedgerow(above ground) to return to the earth naturally. Wouldn't bother me a bit to have the crows picking my corpse. Those possums might tickle a bit though! LOL
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