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Old 06-04-2013, 04:07 PM
 
962 posts, read 826,449 times
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Bambi sneaks in because of car/deer accidents -- kind of a cheat, methinks. But interesting article; thanks. Your point(s) and mine together should minimize the worry about coyotes.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:09 PM
bjh
Status: "Keep calm and carry on." (set 6 days ago)
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
In the majority of cases your right. However; you cannot group all coyotes alike. You could say the same for humans – most of us do not kill other humans (but not all of us). Coyotes age like humans. Coyotes also live with deferring stages of hunger, social drives and parenthood. Different animals (even in the same species) have different temperaments. Some coyotes are mixed breeds and much larger.
All I am saying is to respect the animal for what it is – a predator.

My PA Game Commission loved to say that our eastern coyotes only preyed on the weak and helpless. I personally saw them go after a spike buck. They had already drawn blood. The animal looked healthy; except for the blood. I am guessing that , as a hunter, the deer probably weighed about 125 to 150 pounds. My father and brother-in-law watched coyotes go after a four point buck. Both of these animals were faster and stronger than many humans.

I just don't like to hear anybody say 'never' and what difference does it make that we moved into their territory (it is what it is).
Are you saying I'm stereotyping coyotes?

What difference about territory?
1. That's why some people are encountering them more.
2. Displacing them and their prey causes them to seek other food sources.
3. Any decent human being recognizes that wild animals need some territory of their own.

What difference does it make if they hunt deer, healthy or not? Hunting is their natural role. I couldn't take down a buck by chasing and biting it. Good for them fulfilling their role with athleticism and teamwork.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
15,971 posts, read 12,764,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjh View Post
Are you saying I'm stereotyping coyotes?

What difference about territory?
1. That's why some people are encountering them more.
2. Displacing them and their prey causes them to seek other food sources.
3. Any decent human being recognizes that wild animals need some territory of their own.

What difference does it make if they hunt deer, healthy or not? Hunting is their natural role. I couldn't take down a buck by chasing and biting it. Good for them fulfilling their role with athleticism and teamwork.
The point about the deer is that they are capable of taking down healthy, fairly large, animals. Deer have more speed and power than many humans. In other words: They (coyotes) have the means to kill humans. It is another thing to say that they have the will to kill humans. Of course; humans are usually feared and avoided. But; never say never.

Many years ago I was attacked by a muskrat. It could have been rabid or protecting it's young? I don't know. Muskrats are the last animals that you would ever think wanted to go after humans – usually they flee on sight of a human and they are much smaller than any coyote. I also had one raccoon come after me in the middle of the day.

Here is a link to a pdf file from the Virginia Dept of Game and Inland Fisheries: http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlif...ets/coyote.pdf In the file they state: “Be aware that coyotes in other eastern states have attacked and severely injured small toddlers when left unattended for even a short period of time. Although the likelihood of such an attack is very remote, never leave small children unattended in areas frequented by coyotes.”

As far as who's territory is who's: What is the difference? When I was young we never heard of any coyotes. Perhaps they were here many years ago? But; they were not around in PA in the 1950's and 60's. It was not until the late 80's or 90's that they really started appearing. But predators and their prey run in cycles. In the first fifty years of the last century there were very few deer in PA. It was not until the last fifty years, of that century, that deer became prolific. It is just semantics when you try to say that they were “first”.

I just don't think that it is healthy to not respect the animal for what it is. You also never know when you might encounter a sick or rabid animal or one having a bad fur day.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:39 AM
 
Location: NJ
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No need to fear yotes in general. Treat as if it was a stray dog of the same size.

A couple of years ago there was a celebrated case of a yote attcking and killing a early twenty year old Canadian singer who was hiking in the mountains alone while wearing ear phones. Easy to find that link.

Yotes have taken several very young kids left to play in the backyard, know of cases in San diego area.

These critters are ultra smart and they fear not, their intelligence is legendary. The outsmart you, not fear you.

I will bet that the coyote with a den at the school is not a coyote but a red fox.

Schools fear the harm of dodge ball and pop tarts in the sahpe of a gun, so it makes perfect sense to strike fear in the heart of children and parents by cancelling soccer practice.

Fear of rabies would be a valid reason but then again unless the woods and fields are sanitized of all warm blooded creatures will our children be safe. Yep the school is on the right track.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:49 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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I recall reading about the things to really worry about are the coyote/wolf hybrids ("coywolves") that seem to be increasing in number. They apparently hunt in packs and don't have much fear of humans.
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
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Originally Posted by MaseMan View Post
I recall reading about the things to really worry about are the coyote/wolf hybrids ("coywolves") that seem to be increasing in number. They apparently hunt in packs and don't have much fear of humans.
About the Eastern hybrids hunting in packs: I belong to a hunting camp that controls several hundred acres deep in the woods. Even though still a member; I haven't hunted for about seven years (I do enjoy the fishing).

Twelve years ago we had a camp member working on his tree stand in the summer. He was not armed and was up the stand when he realized that he was surrounded by six coyotes. They did move off; but it scared him and he was an experienced, older, hunter.

None of us are saying that coyotes are always attacking humans. Yes; the odds of that happening are very slim.

To me; the coyote numbers peaked about five or ten years ago. My camp has not seen as many and I have not had any around my house. I am curious if my feeling is backed up by any actual statistics?
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan View Post
I recall reading about the things to really worry about are the coyote/wolf hybrids ("coywolves") that seem to be increasing in number. They apparently hunt in packs and don't have much fear of humans.
Due to their larger size and part wolf dna these Eastern coyotes will form small packs and hunt healthy adult deer, a behavior rare in pure strain Western coyotes. Three or four 35-40 pounders can be a real threat, although even here a mature whitetail buck wearing a rack is a difficult target, quite capable of kicking or goring a coyote to death or severely injuring it, and surviving another day. Deer prefer flight to fight, and on firm ground, and given a chance to flee, a healthy deer can easily just outrun coyotes, or for that matter, wolves. This is one reason why most predator attacks fail, the prey is alerted and is just too fast to catch.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:24 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
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Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Due to their larger size and part wolf dna these Eastern coyotes will form small packs and hunt healthy adult deer, a behavior rare in pure strain Western coyotes. Three or four 35-40 pounders can be a real threat, although even here a mature whitetail buck wearing a rack is a difficult target, quite capable of kicking or goring a coyote to death or severely injuring it, and surviving another day. Deer prefer flight to fight, and on firm ground, and given a chance to flee, a healthy deer can easily just outrun coyotes, or for that matter, wolves. This is one reason why most predator attacks fail, the prey is alerted and is just too fast to catch.
Eight years ago I was fishing in our camp's lake with a friend. The lake is half a mile long and one quarter mile wide. We were just about in the middle of the lake when we heard a splash. We looked over to see a deer swimming almost straight at us. It pasted by us pretty close and we could see blood on it's neck and that it was a spike buck. We followed it to the other shore to see how it looked on land. It had swum about one forth mile. When it came out on the other side of the lake; a coyote was waiting. We did not see the coyote catch up to the deer; we have thick red brush on the side of our lake. We presumed, but are not sure, that one (or more coyotes) drove the deer into the lake while others circled to the other side?

About three or four months later my father and brother-in-law saw a four point buck standing in the water and bleeding from it's flank. There was also a coyote waiting for that deer to come ashore.

While our deer are not the size of Western deer; they are still pretty strong.

Needless to say; I do not buy into the line that they only go after the weak and helpless. I think they are opportunist and will not willingly starve to death - + they are smart.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:15 PM
 
734 posts, read 1,428,785 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kracer View Post
No need to fear yotes in general. Treat as if it was a stray dog of the same size.

A couple of years ago there was a celebrated case of a yote attcking and killing a early twenty year old Canadian singer who was hiking in the mountains alone while wearing ear phones. Easy to find that link.

Yotes have taken several very young kids left to play in the backyard, know of cases in San diego area.

These critters are ultra smart and they fear not, their intelligence is legendary. The outsmart you, not fear you.

I will bet that the coyote with a den at the school is not a coyote but a red fox.

Schools fear the harm of dodge ball and pop tarts in the sahpe of a gun, so it makes perfect sense to strike fear in the heart of children and parents by cancelling soccer practice.

Fear of rabies would be a valid reason but then again unless the woods and fields are sanitized of all warm blooded creatures will our children be safe. Yep the school is on the right track.
You are 100% right. It was not coyotes but fox! A den! Many city people have moved near my sister, which used to be a beautiful, rural area and they can't stand any animals around.
So now the school put ammonia in the den, the fox were forced out and last night my sister was feeding the two feral cats that come to her and out of nowhere comes a fox, chasing them at 90 mph! I hope the cats are ok!
I love fox. Had a family that owned the area when I lived in Pa. They would chase the rabbits and I would be out on the deck, cheering the rabbits on. Never saw one caught but there were occasions I would see one with a rabbit in it's mouth. ugh. I kept my cats in unless they were walking with me and the dogs. Interesting that I always knew when the fox was nearby because the crows would gather and scream their heads off. I never could figure out if it was to warn other critters or because they were hoping for a meal of the discarded parts of the fox's prey. But I knew for sure when the fox was near! One night I had a kit looking in the sliding glass door, watching me on the computer. Another day, a fox was out back playing with my medium sized dog.
I think they are beautiful and love Shiba Inu dogs because they look so much like a fox. Some Pomeranians do to!
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Old 06-05-2013, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Planet Woof
3,167 posts, read 3,712,841 times
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Never walk your dog off leash if you see a coyote in the area. That is an invitation to trouble.

Read one city's story re coyotes:
Nashvillecoyotes.com
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