News, Snake-bite victim socked with $55K bill (pet, New Mexico, snakes)

[P47P47]

Originally Posted by NJmmadude

Also, it is correct that they are sometimes referred to as moccasins, but they are differentiated from the cottonmouth (water moccasin) by the name 'highland moccasin'. These two snakes, the copperhead and cottonmouth, are related.

I knew that they were related, but I've never heard of a copperhead being referred to as anything other than "copperhead". Certainly never heard the term "highland moccasin". Thanks for the info.



On a web site for medical students, there's a thread in the Emergency Medicine forum titled "What I've Learned from My Patients". A post in that thread mentions "The 5 T's of Snakebite Envenomation":

1. Toothless
2. Tattoos
3. Tobacco
4. InToxicated
5. Truck

[NJmmadude]

Originally Posted by P47P47

I knew that they were related, but I've never heard of a copperhead being referred to as anything other than "copperhead". Certainly never heard the term "highland moccasin". Thanks for the info.



On a web site for medical students, there's a thread in the Emergency Medicine forum titled "What I've Learned from My Patients". A post in that thread mentions "The 5 T's of Snakebite Envenomation":

1. Toothless
2. Tattoos
3. Tobacco
4. InToxicated
5. Truck

I've read several aliases, 'chunkhead', 'highland moccasin', 'death adder', etc, many of which are probably local or regional, but the highland moccasin reference probably has some considerable legitimacy as a common name, with the word 'moccasin' being right in the latin name Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen. I've always thought that was really cool.

That's hilarious about the 5t's. I remember reading similar things, including a story about someone who was bitten by a rattler out West somewhere who was playing a game of catch, using the snake as a ball. Who would have thunk it?

[canadian citizen]

Here in the Province of Ontario, we only have ONE venomous snake, the Massasauga Rattler, only found in a limited area, around Georgian Bay, in central Ontario.

Here is a link to a 2013 CTV news story about this year's rattle snake bites, six so far, no fatalities.

NOTE that the area that has these snakes is small and the Regional Medical centre has a full stock of anti venom, on hand. And also NOTE that the treatment is NO COST, as we have universal health care services here. If you are a Canadian citizen, or a Permanent Resident, you ARE COVERED 100 percent, for all required medical care. Obviously, a snake bite is a medical emergency.

It is NOT FREE. we all pay for it through our personal income taxes and sales taxes, BUT no one gets a bill from the Doctor, or the Hospital, as it is paid through our Ontario Health Insurance Program OHIP.

WHY ? No profit motive. We see medical care as a " public service " not a "business " that has to make money. Our system works on a break even model. Of course Doctors get paid as do the rest of the staff, but there is only one payer, the OHIP system, which we all support through our taxes.

A further NOTE, the killing of one of those snakes brings a TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLAR FINE. The last death in Ontario, from a rattle snake bite was over 40 years ago, due to a lack of medical attention.

Link Six rattlesnake bites so far this year in Ontario cottage country | CTV Kitchener News

Compare this to the original story........ 55 thousand dollars in medical costs ? I am glad that I don't live down there. Its a nice place to visit, the USA, but the medical care system leaves a lot to be desired, IMHO.
Jim B

Toronto.

[NJmmadude]

You are stating that you agree that the life of a Massasauga is worth $250,000 but the life of a human being is not worth $55,000?

Also, is this a conversation about nature, or is this ultimately supposed to generate a discussion about politics?

[aquietpath]

Originally Posted by canadian citizen

Here in the Province of Ontario, we only have ONE venomous snake, the Massasauga Rattler, only found in a limited area, around Georgian Bay, in central Ontario.

Here is a link to a 2013 CTV news story about this year's rattle snake bites, six so far, no fatalities.

NOTE that the area that has these snakes is small and the Regional Medical centre has a full stock of anti venom, on hand. And also NOTE that the treatment is NO COST, as we have universal health care services here. If you are a Canadian citizen, or a Permanent Resident, you ARE COVERED 100 percent, for all required medical care. Obviously, a snake bite is a medical emergency.

It is NOT FREE. we all pay for it through our personal income taxes and sales taxes, BUT no one gets a bill from the Doctor, or the Hospital, as it is paid through our Ontario Health Insurance Program OHIP.

WHY ? No profit motive. We see medical care as a " public service " not a "business " that has to make money. Our system works on a break even model. Of course Doctors get paid as do the rest of the staff, but there is only one payer, the OHIP system, which we all support through our taxes.

A further NOTE, the killing of one of those snakes brings a TWO HUNDRED AND FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLAR FINE. The last death in Ontario, from a rattle snake bite was over 40 years ago, due to a lack of medical attention.

Link Six rattlesnake bites so far this year in Ontario cottage country | CTV Kitchener News

Compare this to the original story........ 55 thousand dollars in medical costs ? I am glad that I don't live down there. Its a nice place to visit, the USA, but the medical care system leaves a lot to be desired, IMHO.
Jim B

Toronto.

Couldn't agree more. There is something dreadfully wrong with our medical care system, and no hope of fixing it in sight.

[jasper12]

We don't know the whole situation here. I am tired of people who do stupid things, and expect society to pay their bill.

Was she dressed appropriately for being out in the field? Meaning long heavy pants, and high top boots? Or was she wearing shorts and flip flops?

Most snakes I have seen put people on ignore, even if confronted, most snakes will retreat from a larger animal. Was she trying to take a picture of the snake, and got bit for annoying the Creature? I have seen some pretty stupid people, with telephoto lens as long as my arm, get within ten feet of a moose, Buffalo, and once even saw a tourist taking a picture of a bear with two cubs, from less than 20 feet away!

She took a risk, being out in snake country, and was bit. Time to pay what she can, and get a payment plan for the rest. Or would she rather be dead? She wanted treatment, and it is not free.

[LibraGirl123]

Did anyone notice the part where it said that her insurance had lapsed?

[canadian citizen]

NJmmadude>

No, I was simply saying that the cost of care and treatment in the USA was way out of line with what it would cost here in Ontario.

Remember I DID say that our health care is NOT free, we all pay for it through our taxes..... BUT the cost is factored on a NO PROFIT system that only charges for the actual cost of the care, whatever it is.

And I didn't say that the life of a human was not worth as much as that of a snake. I WAS pointing out that the snakes are protected, by huge fines, in our laws. Can you see the point , now ?

Jim B

Toronto.

[P47P47]

Originally Posted by jasper12

We don't know the whole situation here. I am tired of people who do stupid things, and expect society to pay their bill.

Was she dressed appropriately for being out in the field? Meaning long heavy pants, and high top boots? Or was she wearing shorts and flip flops?

Most snakes I have seen put people on ignore, even if confronted, most snakes will retreat from a larger animal. Was she trying to take a picture of the snake, and got bit for annoying the Creature? I have seen some pretty stupid people, with telephoto lens as long as my arm, get within ten feet of a moose, Buffalo, and once even saw a tourist taking a picture of a bear with two cubs, from less than 20 feet away!

She took a risk, being out in snake country, and was bit. Time to pay what she can, and get a payment plan for the rest. Or would she rather be dead? She wanted treatment, and it is not free.

Did you even read the linked article?

She was driving on a suburban parkway along the Potomac River in Northern Virginia when she stopped at an overlook to take a picture of the area. She had no idea that a snake was nearby until it bit her. Anywhere in the Mid-Atlantic area is "snake country" for a copperhead, but this was hardly the situation for wearing anti-snake armor, nor was it related to the "5 T's" posted previously.

[jasper12]

You get out of your car, in a natural area, you should be prepared.

As I said, I personally do not think that may be the whole story.