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Old 11-03-2013, 02:09 PM
 
Location: God's Country
5,188 posts, read 3,778,261 times
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There're youtube excerpts from the old Marty Stouffer nature series showing a wolverine seriously injuring a timber wolf in a fight; another one of a wolverine taking a carcass away from two wolves who apparently didn't want to risk injury for a carcass that they found; and a third one of a wolverine harassing a grizzly from behind, until the grizzly got so frustrated, he tore off a piece of the carcass for himself and went away, and let the wolverine have the rest of it. The point is: wolverines are bad dudes.

There was a recent article about a Florida cop sitting in his patrol car -- probably noshing on a Dunkin' Donut -- when the damn car started shaking. Officer Friendly thought it was an earth tremor, but came to learn that it was a pit bull with its jaws latched on to the fender. Then the beast attacked the tire and ultimately back to the fender. Cop did subdue it via taser and was not hurt. There was another article of several pit bulls ripping a front fender apart in an effort get at a cat that was lodged somehow in the engine block. The 2nd point is: pit bulls are bad dudes.

I don't advocate setting up bouts between animals. No way, but still cannot help wonder about the outcome of a rumble between these two creatures who are roughly the same weight. Of course, the chances of them meeting in the wild are nil, given their respective geographical stomping grounds.
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Orange County, CA
3,727 posts, read 5,423,983 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62 View Post
There're youtube excerpts from the old Marty Stouffer nature series showing a wolverine seriously injuring a timber wolf in a fight; another one of a wolverine taking a carcass away from two wolves who apparently didn't want to risk injury for a carcass that they found; and a third one of a wolverine harassing a grizzly from behind, until the grizzly got so frustrated, he tore off a piece of the carcass for himself and went away, and let the wolverine have the rest of it. The point is: wolverines are bad dudes.
Many of Stouffer's wildlife films, and those of other filmakers, were fakes. They often used captive trained animals, staged so called fights, and used expert film editing and splicing to create the desired scenarios. The wolverine scenes were an example of this. Actual confrontations and fights between predators are very difficult to capture on film, or to even observe, the filmmakers have to be very lucky and patient, it may take years, or perhaps even never.

Perhaps no other animal has had more tall tales told about it than the wolverine. Hundred year old trapper's yarns and other such tales should be taken with a grain of salt. There is no such thing as a bionic animal made of steel, and the wolverine is no exception. Wolverines do not drive grizzlys or cougars off of kills, beat up wolves, or bring down healthy adult moose. To try and do so would get them killed, and they know it. An adult male wolverine weighs between 30 and 40 pounds, with females much smaller. A prime wolf is triple that size, a cougar four times as heavy, and a grizzly 10 to 20 times as big, and size differences between predators does count.

A few years ago there was a documentary on the work of a Finnish filmaker done on wolverines filmed on the Finnish/Russian border. Same animals as found in North America. The film took a bit of the myth away about these animals. Wolverines were found to be much more social with other wolverines than previously believed. When brown bears showed up, a bear quite like our NA grizzly, the wolverines wisely quickly ran away. There were no confrontations or fights.
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:27 AM
 
Location: God's Country
5,188 posts, read 3,778,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Many of Stouffer's wildlife films, and those of other filmakers, were fakes. They often used captive trained animals, staged so called fights, and used expert film editing and splicing to create the desired scenarios. The wolverine scenes were an example of this. Actual confrontations and fights between predators are very difficult to capture on film, or to even observe, the filmmakers have to be very lucky and patient, it may take years, or perhaps even never.

Perhaps no other animal has had more tall tales told about it than the wolverine. Hundred year old trapper's yarns and other such tales should be taken with a grain of salt. There is no such thing as a bionic animal made of steel, and the wolverine is no exception. Wolverines do not drive grizzlys or cougars off of kills, beat up wolves, or bring down healthy adult moose. To try and do so would get them killed, and they know it. An adult male wolverine weighs between 30 and 40 pounds, with females much smaller. A prime wolf is triple that size, a cougar four times as heavy, and a grizzly 10 to 20 times as big, and size differences between predators does count.

A few years ago there was a documentary on the work of a Finnish filmaker done on wolverines filmed on the Finnish/Russian border. Same animals as found in North America. The film took a bit of the myth away about these animals. Wolverines were found to be much more social with other wolverines than previously believed. When brown bears showed up, a bear quite like our NA grizzly, the wolverines wisely quickly ran away. There were no confrontations or fights.
If what you say is true, the question is why these documentarians want to advance the myth that wolverines are super beasts. What's their agenda, their gain? A more recent PBS documentary with the entire 60 minutes devoted to wolverines claimed that a wolverine climbed a snow-covered mountain in Glacier Natl. Park and descended the other side in just a few hrs. Don't recall the exact time but was shocked at how quickly he made the trek.

And also, if what you say is true, I'm really disillusioned personally, about both the critters and the filmmakers. Don't know what to believe anymore. :-(
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Old 11-05-2013, 11:53 AM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
37,913 posts, read 27,259,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62 View Post
If what you say is true, the question is why these documentarians want to advance the myth that wolverines are super beasts. What's their agenda, their gain? A more recent PBS documentary with the entire 60 minutes devoted to wolverines claimed that a wolverine climbed a snow-covered mountain in Glacier Natl. Park and descended the other side in just a few hrs. Don't recall the exact time but was shocked at how quickly he made the trek.

And also, if what you say is true, I'm really disillusioned personally, about both the critters and the filmmakers. Don't know what to believe anymore. :-(
There are a couple of books out on it. I read Shooting in the Wild: An Insider's Account of Making Movies in the Animal Kingdom.

Yes, most everything you see regarding conflicts and close ups in these documentaries are shot with zoo animals, and/or in staged set ups, or with animals raised by game farms / film supply companies for these purposes. Their reasons are quite clearly spelled out, and it comes down to ratings and money.


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Old 11-05-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: God's Country
5,188 posts, read 3,778,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
There are a couple of books out on it. I read Shooting in the Wild: An Insider's Account of Making Movies in the Animal Kingdom.

Yes, most everything you see regarding conflicts and close ups in these documentaries are shot with zoo animals, and/or in staged set ups, or with animals raised by game farms / film supply companies for these purposes. Their reasons are quite clearly spelled out, and it comes down to ratings and money.

I guess that next I'll find out that sperm whales, orca, and great white sharks are kelp-eating vegans and that Tasmanian devils' Schwann cells facial cancer is a fabrication to elicit $$$$ donation to wildlife funds.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:09 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
37,913 posts, read 27,259,367 times
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I doubt that, but the book I read anyway spells out (in a non judgmental way) some of the ethical issues surrounding the "Tricks of the trade" and about what a film makers may be obligated to disclose to viewers.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:15 PM
 
Location: SW Missouri
15,849 posts, read 31,177,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62 View Post
There're youtube excerpts from the old Marty Stouffer nature series showing a wolverine seriously injuring a timber wolf in a fight; another one of a wolverine taking a carcass away from two wolves who apparently didn't want to risk injury for a carcass that they found; and a third one of a wolverine harassing a grizzly from behind, until the grizzly got so frustrated, he tore off a piece of the carcass for himself and went away, and let the wolverine have the rest of it. The point is: wolverines are bad dudes.

There was a recent article about a Florida cop sitting in his patrol car -- probably noshing on a Dunkin' Donut -- when the damn car started shaking. Officer Friendly thought it was an earth tremor, but came to learn that it was a pit bull with its jaws latched on to the fender. Then the beast attacked the tire and ultimately back to the fender. Cop did subdue it via taser and was not hurt. There was another article of several pit bulls ripping a front fender apart in an effort get at a cat that was lodged somehow in the engine block. The 2nd point is: pit bulls are bad dudes.

I don't advocate setting up bouts between animals. No way, but still cannot help wonder about the outcome of a rumble between these two creatures who are roughly the same weight. Of course, the chances of them meeting in the wild are nil, given their respective geographical stomping grounds.
I would put my money on the wolverine. Pound for pound wolverines are the meanest animals on the planet.

20yrsinBranson
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:00 PM
 
Location: God's Country
5,188 posts, read 3,778,261 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 20yrsinBranson View Post
I would put my money on the wolverine. Pound for pound wolverines are the meanest animals on the planet.

20yrsinBranson
Those are my sentiments too. He seems equally adept with both teeth and claws, in addition, as you noted, the mean streak.
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Old 11-08-2013, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
15,911 posts, read 12,700,152 times
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My wife and I witnessed a standoff between a large male raccoon and a four point buck. The buck had to be five times or more heavier than the raccoon. The buck tried to stomp the raccoon and the raccoon held it's ground. The fight did not last too long and both decided to call it quits before real blood was spilled. But it did give us the lasting impression that you don't mess around with a large raccoon with a chip on it's shoulder.
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Old 11-09-2013, 06:12 AM
 
Location: God's Country
5,188 posts, read 3,778,261 times
Reputation: 8689
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
There are a couple of books out on it. I read Shooting in the Wild: An Insider's Account of Making Movies in the Animal Kingdom.

Yes, most everything you see regarding conflicts and close ups in these documentaries are shot with zoo animals, and/or in staged set ups, or with animals raised by game farms / film supply companies for these purposes. Their reasons are quite clearly spelled out, and it comes down to ratings and money.

I realize that a lot of the footage is staged, but always believed that it portrayed reality.

PBS should be taken to task for mis-informing the public as to what actually happens in nature. I thought that one of their primary goals was to educate.
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