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Old 11-19-2013, 04:39 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,500 posts, read 45,549,997 times
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Interesting but I doubt it will change much about how some animals are treated by agriculture or research.

Scientists Sign Declaration That Animals Have Conscious Awareness; Just Like Humans |Higher Perspective
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Old 11-19-2013, 05:17 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
24,011 posts, read 17,909,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
Interesting but I doubt it will change much about how some animals are treated by agriculture or research.

Scientists Sign Declaration That Animals Have Conscious Awareness; Just Like Humans |Higher Perspective
Well of course they do, it has just taken some humans too long to figure that out...if they do, at all.

Boy, I wish I was in contact with a particular family that I once knew...I'd love to shove this article in their face.
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Old 11-20-2013, 10:15 AM
 
18,766 posts, read 56,581,728 times
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I've known humans that are less conscious than animals.

The problem with declarations like this is that, in the extreme egotism of our species, many humans immediately jump to the conclusion that therefore the highest prevailing human ethics should therefore prevail in all our interactions with animals, and those ethics be enforced by law.

The adverse effects on ecosystems by "compassionate" humans is well documented. "Johnny, you can't keep that huge python anymore. Just let it loose in the Everglades." "Son, we can't afford to keep Rover, I'm going to release him out into the wild by that farm a ways from here. He'll be fine."

Even animal rights advocates often do more harm than good. In the absence of predation, a deer population of beautiful Bambis will increase until mother nature steps in and kills the excess with starvation or disease.

Animals with consciousness have not only the nobler emotions, but some, like minks and fisher cats have viscous and perverse norms. Many are opportunistic cannibals. Meaningful communication with many species is impossible, and in fact some species don't even communicate with each other except for sex and aggression.

Animals and mother nature itself are not bound by our artificial compunctions, and as a natural predator animal ourselves, we need to understand our place in the scheme of things and our own needs to survive before making laws based on declarations like the one cited.
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Old 11-23-2013, 02:44 PM
 
Location: S.W.PA
1,361 posts, read 2,576,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I've known humans that are less conscious than animals.

The problem with declarations like this is that, in the extreme egotism of our species, many humans immediately jump to the conclusion that therefore the highest prevailing human ethics should therefore prevail in all our interactions with animals, and those ethics be enforced by law.

The adverse effects on ecosystems by "compassionate" humans is well documented. "Johnny, you can't keep that huge python anymore. Just let it loose in the Everglades." "Son, we can't afford to keep Rover, I'm going to release him out into the wild by that farm a ways from here. He'll be fine."

Even animal rights advocates often do more harm than good. In the absence of predation, a deer population of beautiful Bambis will increase until mother nature steps in and kills the excess with starvation or disease.

Animals with consciousness have not only the nobler emotions, but some, like minks and fisher cats have viscous and perverse norms. Many are opportunistic cannibals. Meaningful communication with many species is impossible, and in fact some species don't even communicate with each other except for sex and aggression.

Animals and mother nature itself are not bound by our artificial compunctions, and as a natural predator animal ourselves, we need to understand our place in the scheme of things and our own needs to survive before making laws based on declarations like the one cited.
EXACTLY! Rep points coming.
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Old 11-24-2013, 09:29 AM
 
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I was expecting something like that to happen, once the report that dogs have the emotional capacity of a 3-year old child came out, and all the mirror self-recognition tests that now include apes, dolphins, magpies, elephants--and possibly dogs. Plus scientists believe they have found the source of our sense of "self," and it isn't in the neocortex, but in the brainstem! Which all vertebrates have. So: consciousness all around!

For one thing, it's about time this very simple notion becomes commonly accepted. Of course consciousness is part of being alive, if you're a vertebrate (and maybe even further, such as an octopus). They may not be able to tell themselves, "Hey, I'm conscious today!" But neither can a two-year old toddler, and nobody is going to claim she's not conscious. Animals are not things, period.

That being said, Harry does have a point. Well-meaning zealots have in the past made political programs out of science facts, and created problems instead of solving them. I'm just hoping that some common sense will prevail--that we can respect animal consciousness and at the same time keep having pets--and humanely treated farm animals.
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Old 11-25-2013, 03:08 PM
bjh
Status: "Keep calm and carry on." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Memphis - home of the king
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Yes, always been known to those tuned in to reality FM. That being said, animals still fall into one of 3 categories: wild, pets, or dinner!
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Old 12-02-2013, 11:00 AM
 
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If you've spent any time stalking game, training dogs or deceiving waterfowl into shotgun range then you probably already knew this.
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Old 12-04-2013, 08:16 AM
 
Location: San Diego
38,176 posts, read 34,212,930 times
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Originally Posted by Cleonidas View Post
If you've spent any time stalking game, training dogs or deceiving waterfowl into shotgun range then you probably already knew this.
Or hunted any wild animal for that matter.
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