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Old 02-04-2014, 01:37 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
37,918 posts, read 27,273,225 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
That they do not interbreed is what makes them different species.

What is a species? - Encyclopedia of Life

There are plenty of species that interbreed in the wild. There are even animals of different genera that interbreed. Please don't count on high school level definitions.
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:38 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainroosty View Post
Those Mute Swans are not doing any harm and there will not be any significant improvements made by extirpating them.


By what basis are you making this statement?
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Old 02-04-2014, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Yellow cottage, green doors.
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^^^ Through my own personal experience and knowledge of the wildlife and Long Island. Plus a good realistic consideration of human actions, and the consequences, these days.

I enjoy and respect your posts and your knowledge/education.
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Old 02-04-2014, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
There are plenty of species that interbreed in the wild. There are even animals of different genera that interbreed. Please don't count on high school level definitions.


I cannot seem to find an example of interbreeding between genera. Got a link?

As to swan species interbreeding:

The RSPB: Ask an expert: Do black and white swans interbreed?
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Yellow cottage, green doors.
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I cannot seem to find an example of interbreeding between genera. Got a link?


Hello, Suzy_Q. I found this link, where Alistair Wilson states that hybrids can occur between sheep (genus Ovis) and goats (genus Capra).


I didn't research her statement...I'm just offering the link in case anyone cares enough to have a look at it.

I'm not much help on the subject.


Interbreeding (Page 1) - Genes, Genetics and DNA - Ask a Biologist Q&A
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Old 02-04-2014, 03:50 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
I cannot seem to find an example of interbreeding between genera. Got a link?

One for starters, between bullsnakes (Pituophis catenifer) and fox snakes (used to be Elaphe, now Pantherophis vulpinus). At least two wild specimens have been found. This link is to a journal article, it is not a paid site (Journal of Herpetology). There are others.

Whether the hybrids are fertile is a separate issue of course.

If links aren't allowed, I apologize.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~smit4155/NAFH..._etal_2012.pdf

Last edited by timberline742; 02-04-2014 at 05:09 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
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Thanks 'roosty!
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Old 02-04-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Yellow cottage, green doors.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742 View Post
One for starters, between bullsnakes (Pituophis catenifer) and fox snakes (used to be Elaphe, now Pantherophis vulpinus). At least two wild specimens have been found. This link is to a journal article, it is not a paid site (Journal of Herpetology). There are others.

Whether the hybrids are fertile is a separate issue of course.

If links aren't allowed, I apologize.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~smit4155/NAFH..._etal_2012.pdf


I find it easy to dismiss the comparisons contained in that link simply due to the existence of caudocephalic wave similarities between the snakes copulating, not to mention that the possibilty that at least one snake may have been undergoing ecdysis, eliminating vision as a trigger to stimulate the sexual union between the two or more partners. I am not aware of any studies that focus on pheremones between the two and the role they may play - surely they should be a factor, but are they enough?

Also. what proof is there that the interbreeding took place in the wild and not by collectors/hobbyists inducing the crossbreeding and then releasing them as a poorly thought out experiment - much like how collector/hobbyists release species that are not indigenous to the environs that they are released into.

I certainly do realize the possibility that some freaky intermixing may have occurred in isolated incidents with only theories as an explanation. Surely, more fieldwork must be done, with time being a factor, to discover the truth for this apparent oddity.

The general public needs to have restricted access to key areas as a result.

But it still has no relation, to me, to the future of the Mute Swans.

I have little to no hope that there are more than a handful of creatures that would return if the swans were killed off. Woodland salamanders, their larvae, efts and neotenic examples wouldn't return, in my opinion. Neither would many turtles or fish. Woodland plants that have been beaten down to a point of no return -the Jack in the Pulpits, the Lady's Slipper orchids...Red-backed and Lead-backed salamanders.
I remember Northern Fence Lizards in backyards in Smithtown, on the edge of Blydenburgh park - way back before that majestic forest got turned into a tourist attraction. Peacocks and pheasants abounded, as did bats and foxes...Milk Snakes were a backyard visitor, and the berry bushes filled the forest with all kinds of delicious berries - more than the people can pick in a season and still leave tons for the animals. Sphagnum bogs lined the ponds that branched off of Lake Blydenburgh; creeks had scores of newborn snapping turtles migrating through. Pickerel Frogs, Green frogs...Bull frogs and Leopard frogs were scattered around in large numbers along every turn of the streams and creeks and the smell of the skunk cabbage patches filled the air.

S! I would love to hear a detailed analyzing of just exactly what will be the result of the slaughtering of those majestic Mute Swans, that we, who grew along with them, deeply love and respect - and whom were given to us from Her Majesty, the Queen of England, as a gift.

Meanwhile, punk kids trample the skirt of those bodies of water, trashing it and littering it, raping it at a steady rate...killing everything that they can find. Those animals have nowhere to go - there life on earth is over...all because of the sick humans, who aim to do it with a bang...literally.

Last edited by rainroosty; 02-04-2014 at 06:53 PM..
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:10 PM
 
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
37,918 posts, read 27,273,225 times
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You could read the backgrounds on the specimens. One was a roadkill. The other found alive in a very different area, by unrelated people. Interbreeding between species within the same genera is extremely common, of course.

Red backed salamanders? Super common. Probably still the most abundant vertebrate of the northern forest. Find them within large city environs all the time, but whatever.

Mute swans aren't "majestic", please don't fall for the emotional charismatic megafauna bull crud. They aren't as destructive as say feral cats (a true beast of an animal), but they have no redeeming qualities in a native North American wetland ecosystem.

Pheasants are another one that is good riddance. Survived due to stocking and were hanging around as long as the right grass nesting habitat continued to exist, but nevertheless, they're another exotic that isn't missed.
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Old 02-07-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: San Diego
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I used to like watching those swans until I saw (on different occasions) them killing and eating ducklings. I was like "WHOA!" Did that just happen?
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