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Old 03-04-2014, 01:42 PM
 
14,043 posts, read 14,550,920 times
Reputation: 41535

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Another "let's bash China" thread. Go to West Virginia or North Carolina, and come back and tell us about America's record on environmental protection in 2014. Before you are so quick to paint all countries in the world either black or white according to your tabloid-fed prejudices..

There was a thread here a few weeks ago about Snowy Owls this winter in the northern states. Snowy owls are very conspicuous, they just sit all day out in the open, because they have not learned to fear humans. Very few of them ever return to the Arctic in the spring. Wanna know why? They are easy targets for smart alecks exercising their Second Amendment rights, in a culture that has such a spotless record on environmental protection. Whose culture do you blame for that?

Supposing there were no fish and game laws in the USA, and everyone could legally hunt or fish all they want, at any time and any place. Do you think Americans would restrain themselves and behave better than Chinese, with respect to the environment and nature's bounty? It's about laws, not about the culture. And America simply has laws that make us less free than the Chinese -- Americans who did that would be arrested and imprisoned, and we behave ourselves not from any good conscience, but for fear of the police. As you aptly pointed out.


All wild animals die a natural death in the wilderness. Why do we feel that we have to "rescue" those that have the bad luck to die within reach? While hunters and resource industries slaughter as many of the rest as they feel they can "justify". What does letting a dolphin die a natural death have to do with a nation's "record on environmental protection" .
First of all, there's not a lot of China bashing on here - hardly any as a matter of fact. And yes, their environmental record is pretty awful - you can't even safely breathe the air in many of their cities. That's just a fact. In a country that revered wildlife a bit more, there would likely have been more of an outcry from bystanders or the people rescuing the dolphin would have felt more confident in backing the people in the photo down.

Second of all, this photo would be making the rounds no matter where it was taken or no matter the nationality of the people. If you've got a bunch of idiots flexing around a dying dolphin that was supposed to be rescued - that's going to to trigger a response.

Third, why should we do anything at all to combat our worst instincts? Why should we help anyone or any other living creature? Everyone's going to die and it's all without meaning. Let's just embrace nihilism as the only path.

Eesh.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:00 PM
 
4,881 posts, read 5,090,769 times
Reputation: 7358
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
First of all, there's not a lot of China bashing on here - hardly any as a matter of fact. And yes, their environmental record is pretty awful - you can't even safely breathe the air in many of their cities. That's just a fact. In a country that revered wildlife a bit more, there would likely have been more of an outcry from bystanders or the people rescuing the dolphin would have felt more confident in backing the people in the photo down.

Second of all, this photo would be making the rounds no matter where it was taken or no matter the nationality of the people. If you've got a bunch of idiots flexing around a dying dolphin that was supposed to be rescued - that's going to to trigger a response.

Third, why should we do anything at all to combat our worst instincts? Why should we help anyone or any other living creature? Everyone's going to die and it's all without meaning. Let's just embrace nihilism as the only path.

Eesh.
Well said. Imagine if someone did the same thing to a distressed Panda - if so would they be
prosecuted? We at least have to give some credit to the professor of marine studies , Wang Yamin,
who stated that those involved should face criminal charges.
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Old 03-07-2014, 09:25 AM
 
24 posts, read 27,393 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
There was a thread here a few weeks ago about Snowy Owls this winter in the northern states. Snowy owls are very conspicuous, they just sit all day out in the open, because they have not learned to fear humans. Very few of them ever return to the Arctic in the spring. Wanna know why? They are easy targets for smart alecks exercising their Second Amendment rights, in a culture that has such a spotless record on environmental protection. Whose culture do you blame for that?

.

I agree with you.

Everyone loves to bash other cultures/countries/people. Why? Because it's easy to do. It's the lazy person's way of spouting uninformed opinions.
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Old 03-08-2014, 04:22 AM
 
19,002 posts, read 24,699,307 times
Reputation: 36511
where is spok when you need him??

they need an interpreter to communicate with the dolphin
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Duluth, MN
527 posts, read 998,346 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Another "let's bash China" thread. Go to West Virginia or North Carolina, and come back and tell us about America's record on environmental protection in 2014. Before you are so quick to paint all countries in the world either black or white according to your tabloid-fed prejudices..

There was a thread here a few weeks ago about Snowy Owls this winter in the northern states. Snowy owls are very conspicuous, they just sit all day out in the open, because they have not learned to fear humans. Very few of them ever return to the Arctic in the spring. Wanna know why? They are easy targets for smart alecks exercising their Second Amendment rights, in a culture that has such a spotless record on environmental protection. Whose culture do you blame for that?

Supposing there were no fish and game laws in the USA, and everyone could legally hunt or fish all they want, at any time and any place. Do you think Americans would restrain themselves and behave better than Chinese, with respect to the environment and nature's bounty? It's about laws, not about the culture. And America simply has laws that make us less free than the Chinese -- Americans who did that would be arrested and imprisoned, and we behave ourselves not from any good conscience, but for fear of the police. As you aptly pointed out.


All wild animals die a natural death in the wilderness. Why do we feel that we have to "rescue" those that have the bad luck to die within reach? While hunters and resource industries slaughter as many of the rest as they feel they can "justify". What does letting a dolphin die a natural death have to do with a nation's "record on environmental protection" .
I've lived in Appalachia and yeah, China's environmental protection laws are still much worse. Show me a place in any part of the U.S. where half the population has to wear a breathing mask just to walk down the street (like in most of China's major cities).

Moreover, since I happen to enforce wildlife law - and in a Northern state - I can tell you for a fact that "smart alecks exercising their Second Amendment rights" aren't doing nearly as much damage to the snowy owl population as you may think. Actually, more damage is being done to them by unscrupulous birders and wildlife photographers who bait them with wild mice - hampering their abilities to forage for themselves, interrupting their normal behavior, causing them to fly across roads and be struck by cars - than any "smart aleck" with a gun. Loving wildlife and simultaneously being willing to do anything for a photo opportunity or a personal moment of zen is far greater danger to wildlife these days, mainly because most wildlife laws don't address it and it's harder to prove in court.

It also matters not one iota whether people would follow environmental or conservation laws if it were voluntary or what would happen if we didn't have any. We do have them. That's what I'm talking about. I'm also not "painting all countries" one way or another. I'm simply saying that compared to the U.S., China is about 50 years behind as far as emissions controls and unchecked raping of natural resources.

Of course, China also happens to be one of the world's largest markets for illicit wildlife trade, too. But that's another topic altogether.
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Old 03-17-2014, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Duluth, MN
527 posts, read 998,346 times
Reputation: 884
Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
Another "let's bash China" thread. Go to West Virginia or North Carolina, and come back and tell us about America's record on environmental protection in 2014. Before you are so quick to paint all countries in the world either black or white according to your tabloid-fed prejudices..

There was a thread here a few weeks ago about Snowy Owls this winter in the northern states. Snowy owls are very conspicuous, they just sit all day out in the open, because they have not learned to fear humans. Very few of them ever return to the Arctic in the spring. Wanna know why? They are easy targets for smart alecks exercising their Second Amendment rights, in a culture that has such a spotless record on environmental protection. Whose culture do you blame for that?

Supposing there were no fish and game laws in the USA, and everyone could legally hunt or fish all they want, at any time and any place. Do you think Americans would restrain themselves and behave better than Chinese, with respect to the environment and nature's bounty? It's about laws, not about the culture. And America simply has laws that make us less free than the Chinese -- Americans who did that would be arrested and imprisoned, and we behave ourselves not from any good conscience, but for fear of the police. As you aptly pointed out.


All wild animals die a natural death in the wilderness. Why do we feel that we have to "rescue" those that have the bad luck to die within reach? While hunters and resource industries slaughter as many of the rest as they feel they can "justify". What does letting a dolphin die a natural death have to do with a nation's "record on environmental protection" .
I've lived in Appalachia and yeah, China's environmental protection laws are still much worse. Show me a place in any part of the U.S. where half the population has to wear a breathing mask just to walk down the street (like in most of China's major cities).

Moreover, since I happen to enforce wildlife law - and in a Northern state - I can tell you for a fact that "smart alecks exercising their Second Amendment rights" aren't doing nearly as much damage to the snowy owl population as you may think.

Actually, more damage is being done to them by unscrupulous birders and wildlife photographers who bait them with wild mice - hampering their abilities to forage for themselves, interrupting their normal behavior, causing them to fly across roads and be struck by cars - than any "smart aleck" with a gun.

Loving wildlife and simultaneously being willing to do anything for a photo opportunity or a personal moment of zen is far greater danger to wildlife these days, mainly because most wildlife laws don't address it and it's harder to prove in court. At least in the U.S.

It also matters not one iota whether people would follow environmental or conservation laws if it were voluntary or what would happen if we didn't have any. We do have them. That's what I'm talking about. Compared to the U.S., China is about 50 years behind as far as emissions controls and unchecked harvesting of natural resources.

Of course, China also happens to be one of the world's largest markets for illicit wildlife trade, too. But that's another topic altogether.
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