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Old 08-24-2017, 01:04 AM
 
5,162 posts, read 3,065,940 times
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When I lived in the suburbs & walked the canyon with my dogs, we often encountered a lone, well-fed coyote on the trail in front of us. This was in broad daylight. The dogs knew better...they froze. I stamped my feet & yelled at it, & it finally sauntered away.

I live in the country now, & hear packs of coyotes. They sound different, & I know that once they were circling my husband, dogs & I. This was after dark, & I knew we were in danger. I don't take the dogs out after dark now in that area.

This is a huge change from coyote behavior when I was growing up in the desert. Back then, coyotes stayed far from civilization, & if you encountered them it was usually only one or two, very scrawny, & they ran as quickly as they could away from you.

I won't even get into our encounters with black bears & their cubs, the black bear that followed us on a trail, or the cougar as big as a car. The Roosevelt elk are more like big cows, unless in rut, then get outta there!

People are encroaching more on wild animals' territory, & the animals are responding in turn.
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Old 08-24-2017, 05:20 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
15,892 posts, read 12,695,051 times
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Large animals can be lethal if they attack. But small animals can also give people a real fight if they are infected with rabies: Rabid Fox Repeatedly Attacks Man| Latest News Videos | Fox News. After looking at that clip or reading the second one; it is easy to imagine that some people could suffer heart attacks if faced with a similar set of circumstances: Rabid fox attacks woman in Advance | Local News | journalnow.com. Wild animals, even small wild animals, are very strong, fast, and rabies can make them persistent.

It isn't only that; as humans we are not use to being attacked - we are not expecting it. Fluffy is fluffy and cute and would never do anything wrong - but that is not always the case. Perhaps everybody should have grown up with a flock of Bantam roosters or their hens, with young, to feed and they would be more leery?
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:23 AM
 
2,132 posts, read 1,155,460 times
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If you see a normally nocturnal animal out during the day - such as a raccoon or coyote - that's one thing. In an urban or suburban environment they may just have been disturbed - but they may also have rabies. So don't approach but don't for heaven's sake worry about it otherwise.

I have NEVER heard of a lone coyote that would do anything but run from a human as long as the human wasn't actively trying to annoy or trap it.

People are too removed from nature these days. The number of people who get upset about birds who might poop in their yards or who think that "organic" food is CLEANER than food I grow in my garden (LOLOLOLOL! Birds poop EVERYWHERE) or who get upset to discover that eggs come out of a chicken's body just boggles the mind. I actually had a women get all hysterical trying to come up with some way to keep the birds from pooping in her garden. I hope she got over that eventually.

Once this guy came in to the seed store where I was buying a sack of buckwheat for cover crop and began to opine that farmers who couldn't make it should just go out of business (this was during the Farm Crisis). Where, asked the guy running the feed mill, did this guy intend to get his food from then?

"The same place I get it from now," quoth the addled one. "From the GROCERY!"

Oh my ...

Just relax. Call animal control if there is a possibility of rabies, or if its something large and very out of place like a bear. But (healthy) coyotes and foxes are not really a problem.
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
15,892 posts, read 12,695,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyewackette View Post
If you see a normally nocturnal animal out during the day - such as a raccoon or coyote - that's one thing. In an urban or suburban environment they may just have been disturbed - but they may also have rabies. So don't approach but don't for heaven's sake worry about it otherwise.

I have NEVER heard of a lone coyote that would do anything but run from a human as long as the human wasn't actively trying to annoy or trap it.

People are too removed from nature these days. The number of people who get upset about birds who might poop in their yards or who think that "organic" food is CLEANER than food I grow in my garden (LOLOLOLOL! Birds poop EVERYWHERE) or who get upset to discover that eggs come out of a chicken's body just boggles the mind. I actually had a women get all hysterical trying to come up with some way to keep the birds from pooping in her garden. I hope she got over that eventually.

Once this guy came in to the seed store where I was buying a sack of buckwheat for cover crop and began to opine that farmers who couldn't make it should just go out of business (this was during the Farm Crisis). Where, asked the guy running the feed mill, did this guy intend to get his food from then?

"The same place I get it from now," quoth the addled one. "From the GROCERY!"

Oh my ...

Just relax. Call animal control if there is a possibility of rabies, or if its something large and very out of place like a bear. But (healthy) coyotes and foxes are not really a problem.
The majority of rabies cases are found in skunks. Rarely do coyotes get rabies; but they can: Washington County coyote tests positive for rabies | WNYT.com. The idea of larger animals of prey coming down with rabies reminds me of the movie 'Cujo'.

As far as calling animal control; hopefully other people have a better response than when I called our Game Commission and they asked me to handle it!
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:28 AM
 
2,132 posts, read 1,155,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
The majority of rabies cases are found in skunks. Rarely do coyotes get rabies; but they can: Washington County coyote tests positive for rabies | WNYT.com. The idea of larger animals of prey coming down with rabies reminds me of the movie 'Cujo'.

As far as calling animal control; hopefully other people have a better response than when I called our Game Commission and they asked me to handle it!
Fortunately people usually do their level best to avoid skunks. However bats are the critter most likely to carry rabies - but fortunately in the continental US people are seldom exposed to bats. Our bats are mostly insectivorous with some fruit-bats thrown in in warmer areas. They don't much go for biting people.

Other than that - which animal is most likely to be a carrier of rabies depends on where you live. Check out this map from the CDC:

https://www.cdc.gov/rabies/location/...d_animals.html

All the animals that carry rabies - bats, raccoons, coyotes, foxes and skunks - are normally nocturnal. If you see them out and about during the day that's a warning sign. DO NOT APPROACH. If you see a bat on the ground - do not approach. Do not touch. That goes for all sick animals, including domestic dogs and cats.

Fortunately rabies is pretty uncommon, and in particular rabies transmitted to humans is pretty uncommon. If you exercise common sense around animals, particularly wild animals, you really aren't in much danger - outside of the range of vampire bats, at any rate, LOL!
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
15,325 posts, read 8,491,629 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Citation from reputable source please.

I was fooled by a coyote one night after coming home from work. I thought it was some one's dog and I stopped the car to try and catch it. We were just about 20 feet apart and I was calling it to come to me. It looked at me, I looked at it and thought that it was an unusual looking dog. You know that moment that light bulb comes on over your head? Well, I finally realized that it was a coyote. We had a nice conversation for about another minute and it ran off.


(Thanks for the rep phonelady, but I've never felt the least bit threatened by the coyotes. They don't seem interested in my Yorkie either, but I'll play it safe and keep him close on our walks. )
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:15 AM
 
Location: CT
3,460 posts, read 1,966,629 times
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We live in a small city, we live on the second floor and frequently use our back door steps, one evening just after dusk we got home and I headed up the stairs not paying particular attention. A little better than half way up, I saw something move up by our back door and realized it was a racoon. I just stopped and we looked at one another, I slowly backed down the stairs, the coon pretty much just watched, eventually he came down cautiously and went on his way. We're still friends.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:06 AM
 
Location: New York Area
18,431 posts, read 7,282,817 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
Eastern coyotes are closer to Canis lupus lycaon than to Canis familiaris.
I know. I was kidding, since I petted a Labradoodle and a Black Lab. Ferocious animals in their own right (especially with their tails) but not coyotes by any stretch.

I have long thought that eastern coyotes are filling the ecological niche once filled by wolves. I would expect them to evolve in that direction. Now that large chunks of the previously farmed interior East have reverted to wilds the deer have exploded in population. For a lot of reasons bears are not big predators of deer. As coyotes came east from the West their migration route was over the top of the Great Lakes. Plenty of time to horse around with local wolves and mix.

As they moved south on the eastern end of the Great Lakes they found a veritable banquet table of deer, raccoons and other animals not used to predation. Thus I fully expect them to take over for wolves unless wolves are reintroduced to the East Coast. I could see wolf reintroduction, either helped by man or otherwise in the Adirondacks, Vermont's Green Mountains and New Hampshire's White Mountains, and large portions of Maine. But until and unless that happens, coyotes and hybrids are likely to grow larger, hunt in packs and thus become able to handle killing live deer.

This can't happen a moment too soon.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:15 AM
 
Location: WMHT
3,465 posts, read 3,449,317 times
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Post DNA shows coyotes in the Northeast with up to 25% wolf DNA, and up to 11% dog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Quote:
Eastern coyotes are closer to Canis lupus lycaon than to Canis familiaris.
Citation from reputable source please.
Monzón, J., Kays, R., Dykhuizen, D.E., 2014. Assessment of coyote-wolf-dog admixture using ancestry-informative diagnostic SNPs. Molecular Ecology vol 23: 182–197.
2010 A genome-wide perspective on the evolutionary history of enigmatic wolf-like canids. Genome Research, full article here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genome
Admixture in coyotes
Midwestern/Southern and Northeastern coyotes show a surprising fraction of admixture with gray wolves and dogs, which is maintained to some extent in their descendents who colonized the
Great Lakes region and New England. The fraction of ancestry blocks that are associated with gray wolves in the SABER analysis is as much as 13.1% (Fig. 6I; Supplemental Table S6). structure analyses also suggest limited dog ancestry, and SABER analysis with dogs as a third ancestral population found similar levels overall of dog ancestry in Northeastern (9.1%) and Midwestern/Southern coyotes (7.5%) (Supplemental Table S6). Recent dog–coyote admixture is likely given the abundance of dogs associated with Native Americans and extensive human habitation of the Eastern US (Schwartz 1997; Morey 2010). Further, this possibility is supported by morphologic studies and genetic evidence of a doglike mitochondrial DNA haplotype and dog-derived black coat color variants in coyotes of the Southeast (Mengel 1971; Freeman and Shaw 1979; Adams et al. 2003; Schmutz et al. 2007; Anderson et al. 2009; Kays et al. 2010; Supplemental Table S1). As in red wolves, our results suggest that historic admixture between gray wolves and coyotes began as long as 250–300 yr ago, coincident with the decline and extirpation of the gray wolf in the Midwestern and Southern US. This result reaffirms the importance of relative species abundance to admixture, and suggests that the processes that gave rise to the red wolf may be similar to those leading to admixture in Midwestern/Southern and Northeastern coyotes. The latter display the highest fraction of wolf ancestry and elevated LD relative to ROH (Fig. 5; Supplemental Table S5), suggesting the effect of recent admixture as coyotes expanded their range through the Great Lakes region beginning early in the last century.
Research published earlier this year states "coyotes and North American wolves shared a remarkably recent common ancestor. Scientists had previously estimated their ancestor lived a million years ago, but the new study put the figure at just 50,000 years ago."

When humans came to north america (+12,000 years ago), they brought old world domestic dogs along for the ride:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennifer A. Leonard, UCLA
"Our results show that ancient American dogs were more similar to dogs from the Old World than to gray wolves of North America," Leonard said. "This implies that when nomadic hunter-gatherers migrated across the Bering Strait from Asia into North America, at least 12–14,000 years ago, they already had dogs with them. The diversity observed in the ancient American dogs indicates that multiple lineages of dogs were taken in to the New World."
Of course this doesn't preclude some post-migration interbreeding between domestic dogs and New World wolves and coyotes, but for the most part, wolves and coyotes are closer to each other than they are to the domestic dog.
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:42 AM
 
Location: New York Area
18,431 posts, read 7,282,817 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyewackette View Post
If you see a normally nocturnal animal out during the day - such as a raccoon or coyote - that's one thing. In an urban or suburban environment they may just have been disturbed - but they may also have rabies. So don't approach but don't for heaven's sake worry about it otherwise.
**********
Just relax. Call animal control if there is a possibility of rabies, or if its something large and very out of place like a bear. But (healthy) coyotes and foxes are not really a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
The majority of rabies cases are found in skunks. Rarely do coyotes get rabies; but they can: Washington County coyote tests positive for rabies | WNYT.com. The idea of larger animals of prey coming down with rabies reminds me of the movie 'Cujo'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyewackette View Post
Fortunately rabies is pretty uncommon, and in particular rabies transmitted to humans is pretty uncommon. If you exercise common sense around animals, particularly wild animals, you really aren't in much danger - outside of the range of vampire bats, at any rate, LOL!
See my post 66 (link) above. We had an attack by a rabid coyote in my own home town in Westchester County, New York in a densely populated


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyewackette View Post
Fortunately people usually do their level best to avoid skunks. However bats are the critter most likely to carry rabies - but fortunately in the continental US people are seldom exposed to bats. Our bats are mostly insectivorous with some fruit-bats thrown in in warmer areas. They don't much go for biting people.
We actually had a death recently from bat-transmitted rabies in nearby Ulster County, if I recall correctly.
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