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Old 08-26-2017, 12:32 AM
 
Location: on the wind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frihed89 View Post
I always found it curious that in Banff National Park (Canada), there are signs along all the trails telling you waht to do in case you come across a Grizzley Bear. But in Glacier National Park (in the US), there were none. Can you guess where more attacks, injuries and fatalities occured?
This does not mean the US park does not warn about grizzlies. They use other methods besides trail signs, as many visitors prefer the scenery not be occluded by signs. Often, the US agency prefers issuing warnings before the visitor even reaches the trails. They use visitor contact stations/entry stations, visitor orientations, websites, interpretive and educational ranger programs, and free printed literature. I have worked for the US park service in grizzly country so am familiar with these methods, but I am not familiar with those used in Banff. I know from personal experience that US parks have quite extensive bear encounter guidelines in place. But you can't force a visitor to use them.
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:49 AM
 
Location: on the wind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aredhel View Post
Ultimately, the best way to protect grizzlies long-term is to keep the large, remote parts of Alaska and northern Canada relatively unvisited.
Luckily those places tend to be inconvenient and expensive to visit as well as too uncomfortable for most people, so the visitation there tends to remain sparse. Often, when a predatory bear is killed and necropsied they find it was old, in poor health, probably less able to maintain itself on a normal diet. Or, it was a juvenile....one that is old enough to be independent still inexperienced, but not dominant enough to chase other bears off a food source. Juvenile grizzlies are the most likely to get into trouble with people. They often have been kicked out by their mother that has re-mated, have been bullied away from easier food, and are more likely to "test" people's behavior. If they learn that they can bluff people away from food they win a "prize" and will repeat the attempts. That's why it is a lot more important to train PEOPLE how to behave in bear country...so they don't habituate young bears.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
10,712 posts, read 9,327,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonHB View Post
This does not mean the US park does not warn about grizzlies. They use other methods besides trail signs, as many visitors prefer the scenery not be occluded by signs. Often, the US agency prefers issuing warnings before the visitor even reaches the trails. They use visitor contact stations/entry stations, visitor orientations, websites, interpretive and educational ranger programs, and free printed literature. I have worked for the US park service in grizzly country so am familiar with these methods, but I am not familiar with those used in Banff. I know from personal experience that US parks have quite extensive bear encounter guidelines in place. But you can't force a visitor to use them.
I worked in USPS in the summers of 1962 and 1963 in Mt Rainer. No grizzlies, but lots of black bears, lots of signs, lots of warnings about not feeding the bears, not getting out of the car, etc. Still, you'd be amazed by the stupid things visitors did, puting themselves at risk. Fortunately, the worst incident I saw was when a mature black bear ripped of the wrap-around skirt of a visitor, who had just put the last part of a chocolate bar in her skirt pocket...and ate the rest of the candy bar! The woman was in shock when we got to her.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:44 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
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As to bears, they are far less an issue with both human attacks and encounters than Mountain Lions. Thing is bear attacks often happen in places of note such as Yellowstone. So they make the news. Mountain lion problems are reported to the wildlife agencies,(mostly , not always) but even human attacks (which are always reported) don't make any headlines. Not on any scale anyway. World wide feline predators are the big offender for the man eating phenomena.


And Mountain Lions have a dog in that fight. Thing is, unlike the poor people of Africa and India that live on these animals front porch, rarely does an animal get the chance to re offend (or kill a human in the first place) here in the US. Victims here tend to be citified types, off on grand adventures in the back country without a lick of sense in their heads. Many such incidents can be cited. They don't ever turn out well, even if the victim does by chance survive.


Cats throw the whole can of whup azz down when they attack, and they are all teeth, claws and lean muscle the strength of which dwarves even the most conditioned of human athletes. A Mountain Lion can take down any linebacker from the NE Patriots you can cite, with consummate lethality and ultimate confidence. I have seen, up close and personal like, what these cats can do. And I have the utmost respect for their ....abilities. Up to and including ice cold fear.


Moving to the African and Indian cats, there's no way I'm going into their turf. Not for love nor money, and the people in those latter continents live with these critters damn near face to face daily. In the Tsavo region the lions turn man eater regularly. The habit seems to be in their DNA. They are different. Not anything like the famous Cecil. The males are maneless and unlike the more well known species of lions the males also actively hunt. Research done into these animals lineage has found their genes to have interesting elements. Elements going back to Pleistocene epoch cats long extinct. They drag off and consume people regularly, but you won't see it in the news.


Poor villagers living in mud huts in Tsavo don't trump N Korea in US news. Same with folks in India who have tigers using a poor community on a jungle river as a grocery store. And once an animal turns to human prey the undisputed fact among folks who really know them is they will not stop. That is what is very interesting to me. It's not even just old, slow, or injured cats that turn this way. Human prey seems to be like a potent narcotic to big cats in particular. Bears drop off the page when looking at the man eating issue.


That doesn't surprise me. Just watch your fuzzy, cuddly little baby of a house cat when they catch something. They bear no resemblance to the critter that purrs in your lap at this time. Cats enjoy the experience of the hunt. Man eating big cats are no different. Remains of their human kills often show they were toyed with at length before merciful death came. This is typical feline behavior. A bear incident (that is also not actually recent, it happened in 2015) triggered me to start this thread, but I'm more interested in the feline issue.


Man eaters, REAL man eaters/killers. What do we do about them when they pop up? My opinion is they must be taken down. End of line. I suppose it would be interesting to actually capture such and animal and study it at length in a controlled environment for a while. It's never happened to my knowledge, but it could be telling scientifically.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:06 AM
 
Location: San Diego
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This one killed and partially ate a guy and tried to get another human.



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mauled-...oman-recovers/
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:43 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
15,171 posts, read 12,292,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
This one killed and partially ate a guy and tried to get another human.



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/mauled-...oman-recovers/

I remember this one. The cat in question was a nasty customer. This was back in 2004, but I remember it well. Also the 80s incident in Kuhl, near Auburn CA> The interesting thing is that during the 80s and early 90s Mountain lion attacks in CA spiked WAY up. This at the height of the ban on hunting these animals for unfounded and unproven fear they were endangered.


Our population of cats here in NV was just fine(and still is) and they have always been actively hunted. And where I am butts right up to CA. My friends I have that own spreads on the CA side of the mountain ranges that bump up to the Eastern Sierras never noticed any diminished populations of cats.. Neither did their cows and sheep.


That ban was passed with zero proof that cats were actually endangered. They weren't. Never have been. And here they were just having to let cats use their herds as a grocery store. Waiting on CA wildlife authority to show up. That ban went away thankfully. To a cacophony of squealing from the nature Nazis. But smarter heads prevailed. It was the latter squealing that enacted the ban in the first place. It didn't take long for problems to arise from it.
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Old 08-26-2017, 10:51 AM
 
Location: West Coast U.S.A.
675 posts, read 274,826 times
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'There seems to be a sentiment that this is an acceptable thing being as the man was "in the bears territory." '

When you consider the fact that "the bear's territory" covers several states and a huge part of the country north of us, I have to wonder at the people that say things like that. I would guess that most of them live in cities far from any bears and have the mistaken idea that the "bear's territory" covers a few hundred square miles.
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Old 08-26-2017, 12:05 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
15,171 posts, read 12,292,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angry-Koala View Post
'There seems to be a sentiment that this is an acceptable thing being as the man was "in the bears territory." '

When you consider the fact that "the bear's territory" covers several states and a huge part of the country north of us, I have to wonder at the people that say things like that. I would guess that most of them live in cities far from any bears and have the mistaken idea that the "bear's territory" covers a few hundred square miles.

Indeed. With cats this sentiment pops up as well. Cats, which are more numerous than bears, cover huge amounts of ground. They are not stationary to a staked out territory. Anyone who has actually seen a Mountain Lion in action knows very well how they can cover ground. I once observed a cat take a deer kill straight up a shear rock face and over the top. And it didn't take it much effort from where I was looking.


These free climbing enthusiasts would do well to study Mountain Lions. They are THE best free climbers in the world. Hands down. Just as dolphins are the best surfers. To my knowledge we have never had a human attack by a Mountain Lion in my area. Or in NV at all. All the attacks have been on the CA side. And a fair number as well.


Areas where cats are more common are mainly rural, ranching and farming areas. Ranching far more so than farms. And we ranch types know cats well. If you want to know when a cat is in proximity or has been recently your horse will tell you in no uncertain terms. They are to be implicitly trusted. Often enough at the first little whiff they will balk straight down the backtrail. There have been historical cases where a horse and rider were jumped by a cat. This is just a wow to me, knowing how a horse acts when a cats around or even has been. Seems to me someone wasn't listening.


The nose always knows and horses have a great sense of smell. In firsthand comparison, my opinion is they're better than a dog. My close buddy who's a tracker of consummate skill agrees. He's a Shoshone guy, who has spent his whole life in rough, remote country running cattle, and I trust him as much as I trust my horse. That's a compliment of the highest order in our world.


I would like to see the discussion move away from bears. It was a bear incident that made me start this thread but it's cats that have the spotlight as man eaters/killers. But the big cats are the bad news. Personally I'm not confused by such behavior in them. Cats enjoy killing. And humans are easy pickings. But I haven't dug into any deep scientific examination of man eaters. Scientists are stillat a loss to explain the Ghost and the Darkness in Tsavo 1890s. Two males, on a thrill kill rampage. It's still a one off incident. The Tsavo lions are still infamous for being notorious man eaters. More so than any other species of cat.
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:00 PM
 
Location: San Diego
38,160 posts, read 34,179,848 times
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With this ban the cats are out of control here. They are concentrated on the same sliver of Mt ranges the deer like and are really putting the screws to em. Just last year a friend of mine heard something below him in his stand so he took a flash pic and it was a cat with a fawn in it's mouth. I've seen lions every year now when only 10 years ago all you saw were occasional tracks.
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Old 08-26-2017, 01:25 PM
 
Location: on the wind
9,655 posts, read 4,296,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
They are concentrated on the same sliver of Mt ranges the deer like and are really putting the screws to em. I've seen lions every year now when only 10 years ago all you saw were occasional tracks.
Here are the pivotal points. Concentration in smaller and smaller bits of habitat for both cats and deer. The cats were probably always around, but due to their efficiently secretive nature, not as obvious. Now that there's a lot less habitat the deer and the cats are squeezed closer to humans.
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