U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Covid-19 Information Page
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Nature
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-06-2018, 12:32 PM
 
6,647 posts, read 2,744,377 times
Reputation: 7034

Advertisements

Personally I find this disgusting and I would never participate in any way. On the other hand I am not in these peoples shoes having to live out in the wilds of Siberia so Im not qualified to judge. Russia is trying to pass legislation banning bear baiting, the practice of using live animals to train hunting dogs. I sure as hell know your average Russian politcian has little place to judge how things are done when they rarely leave their luxury.

What do you think?

Hunters around Russia rally against proposed ban on bear baiting
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-06-2018, 01:42 PM
 
Location: The Woods
17,199 posts, read 22,943,814 times
Reputation: 9645
I really don't understand that style of training they're doing there though I have no experience with brown bear hunting. Only black bears here. Here the hound hunters have a training season in summer but the bears are of course wild and free so generally dogs get on scent of bear, if they find a bear it'll spook and climb a tree at some point, then the dogs get called off. Training done. Letting a pack of dogs go after a chained bear I really don't get.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Seattle WA, USA
4,318 posts, read 2,574,780 times
Reputation: 2982
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrat335 View Post
Personally I find this disgusting and I would never participate in any way. On the other hand I am not in these peoples shoes having to live out in the wilds of Siberia so Im not qualified to judge. Russia is trying to pass legislation banning bear baiting, the practice of using live animals to train hunting dogs. I sure as hell know your average Russian politcian has little place to judge how things are done when they rarely leave their luxury.

What do you think?

Hunters around Russia rally against proposed ban on bear baiting
well first of there are not that many people who live in the wilds of Siberia, most Siberians live in cities and in those photos most of those people look like your average city people. Plus most of the protesters where in Moscow and St. Petersburg, with only one city in Siberia (technically the Russian Far East) that protested. I think it's a fair point to consider such training exercises as being animal cruelty, especially since these animals are wild and don't deserve to be chained. Similar to how zoos these days don't go trapping wild animals. There are probably many other ways to train a dog how to hunt. But in either case the Federation counsel sent it back to the duma so it still hasn't been banned, but it could be.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 07:11 AM
 
6,647 posts, read 2,744,377 times
Reputation: 7034
I think I would come down against it. It's not necessary. It's definitely dangerous for the dogs too. If the bear gets hold of some noob pup it's not going to be pretty for the dog. It strikes me more as a game drunk a-holes would play than something necessary to train dogs. Back in the day humans used dogs to help in the hunt and no one is going to tell me our neolithic ancestors used live bears tied to a tree to train their dogs.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,918 posts, read 11,599,654 times
Reputation: 20160
A ban on both ban bear-baiting and using dogs to hunt bear would make far more sense. It would also eliminate a form of animal combat—considered barbaric by civilized people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-07-2018, 06:52 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
12,776 posts, read 32,867,876 times
Reputation: 8618
There is a Bear Hunter on C-D that trains dogs & Runs them behind the Truck for 20+ miles a day!!! This is in the USA... then goes hunting lets the dogs get tore up by the dogs! Swears the dogs run up to 50 miles in a hunt & have to have GPS tracking collars on them!!! I know Lots of Hunters in my are that Hunt Bear Not one uses a dog & the Shot Not Mauled
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:36 PM
 
Location: DC
60 posts, read 21,965 times
Reputation: 76
Just a quick side comment: the dogs are not supposed to "maul" the bear (fox, boar, badger, raccoon, coon dog, etc), just as spaniels, setters, pointers, and retrievers are not supposed to maul game birds. The primary purpose of these "bait tests" are to test earth dogs (terriers and dachshunds) and spitz-like dogs (laikas) for their ability to find the animal, immobilize it, and lead the hunters to it to take the shot. The results of these tests are used for breeding purposes, much like game trial results and mondioring/schutzhund/French ring trials are used in gun dogs and working dogs, respectively.
These are NOT catch dogs, nor are they sighthounds. They are not supposed to overpower or kill their prey. That's their owners' job. Whether it's barbaric or civilized - that's another matter.

Last edited by NoodlePoodle; 01-08-2018 at 12:44 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2018, 12:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego
38,125 posts, read 34,143,991 times
Reputation: 22320
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlePoodle View Post
Just a quick side comment: the dogs are not supposed to "maul" the bear (fox, boar, badger, raccoon, coon dog, etc), just as spaniels, setters, pointers, and retrievers are not supposed to maul game birds. The primary purpose of these "bait tests" are to test earth dogs (terriers and dachshunds) and spitz-like dogs (laikas) for their ability to find the animal, immobilize it, and lead the hunters to it to take the shot. The results of these tests are used for breeding purposes, much like game trial results and mondioring/schutzhund/French ring trials are used in gun dogs and working dogs, respectively.
These are NOT catch dogs, nor are they sighthounds. They are not supposed to overpower or kill their prey. People are. Whether it's barbaric or civilized - that's another matter.
This, they are not catch dogs. We use pieces of old kills (hogs) otherwise the dogs will chase stuff you don't want like deer. Once they know what they are to chase they won't chase unwanted game.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2018, 10:48 AM
 
Location: The Woods
17,199 posts, read 22,943,814 times
Reputation: 9645
The hound hunters I know they have the dogs find and chase the bears. Black bears spook easily and climb trees after sensing danger. Then the hunter can decide if they're going to take the now treed bear. I think this can be better for bear management: you have more time to study what you have in front of you and determine if there's cubs around (don't shoot) or if it's a mature male (okay to take). People bear hunting simply on the ground or in blinds or stands tend to take more cubs or mothers than houndsmen.

I don't agree with what the Russians are doing having dogs attack chained bears. But I'm not against using dogs to hunt. There are ways of training dogs other than what those Russians are doing. I've never seen anything like that here.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-09-2018, 03:01 PM
 
Location: DC
60 posts, read 21,965 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
. I've never seen anything like that here.
The closest we have here (that is still legal) is barn hunts. They are fun for the dogs, safe for the rats, but nowhere close to what terriers and other earth dogs were originally (and in counties like Russia still are) bred to do. You will notice that all terriers pictured in the original article are jagdterriers (German hunting terriers). These make awful pets and are not too popular as show dogs, but are the ultimate earthdogs.

One thing that anybody going the barbarity/civilized humanity way of argument would have to take into account is that in some parts of Russia hunting is a way of living, not a sport or a hobby. Dogs are just (replaceable) hunting tools, and hunters want to make sure their tools operate as designed.
I knew a family of hunters that always kept a pack of six jagdterriers. Almost every hunting season they would lose one or two dogs, usually to boar, one time to badger. They still loved their dogs and looked after them, but it's just a different kind of mentality.

And no, brown bears don't climb trees defensively. The do climb trees to get their prey, though. And when they do - postmortem pics are not pretty.

Last edited by NoodlePoodle; 01-09-2018 at 04:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Nature
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2020, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top