Repeal Gay Marriage?

[CateP]

Originally Posted by Brave Stranger

I must say I've become very upset that civil unions have been used as a stepping-stone to gay marriage......often by lying about the intent. So, yes, I favor civil unions, but I'm losing a lot of respect for how the activists are "playing" on the good will of the public.

That's funny. I thought I was a member of the public too. Are you referring to heterosexual people who have blessed the gay and lesbian members of our community with their "approval" for allowing us some legal rights as committed partners? Good will??? What the heck is that?

(Thanks you boss for letting me drink from the same water fountain. Thanks you very much.)

As far as I know the only thing gay activists are trying to accomplish is giving same-sex couples some legal rights like those I've mentioned. There is no lying or deceit going on. Just your common, every day human rights (civil rights ) issues.

I'm sorry if my tone has become combative on this thread, I'd rather talk about the great outdoors or the challenges of state budget deficits, but this issue is very personal for me and I am astounded by some of the comments.

I think if I met a lot you in person we would be having a much different conversation. Perhaps you would have no idea that I'm married to a woman and would come to like me on my own terms. And then when you found out about my sexual orientation it wouldn't matter to you because you liked me AND my partner. You found that we were fun-loving women who loved the outdoors, respected the wisdom of elders, didn't want to be told what to do by a lot of politicians, volunteered our time to help others...you know stuff that really matters. And maybe after some time you might think...hey, why shouldn't these girls be allowed to make medical decisions for each other, have rights of surivorship, visit each other in the hospital? They love each other and have been together for years. You may not like the term 'gay marriage", but you may think we deserved legal rights because we are HUMAN--just like you.

(my attempt at public good will)

[Brave Stranger]

Unlike you I have remained civil & rational on ths thread. Here's the deal: men & women are different. That's reality. Marriage is between men & women who can produce childern. That's the difference between marriage & "gay marriage"And enough of this nonsense that you can't get any legal rights without gay marriage or civil unions.....do you think we don't understand basic law ? ANY one can draw up legal documents to to get all the rights one gets through marriage if one wants to.

I noticed you did not take on my contention that biological reality should reflect the language ? I've been supportive of civil unions & I still am, but don't try & run this nonsense by me that you can't draw up legal papers to get done anything that you need to without some kind of "marriage. We may be backwoods....but some of us are lawyers

[CateP]

Originally Posted by Brave Stranger

Unlike you I have remained civil & rational on ths thread. Here's the deal: men & women are different. That's reality. Marriage is between men & women who can produce childern. That's the difference between marriage & "gay marriage"And enough of this nonsense that you can't get any legal rights without gay marriage or civil unions.....do you think we don't understand basic law ? ANY one can draw up legal documents to to get all the rights one gets through marriage if one wants to.

I noticed you did not take on my contention that biological reality should reflect the language ? I've been supportive of civil unions & I still am, but don't try & run this nonsense by me that you can't draw up legal papers to get done anything that you need to without some kind of "marriage. We may be backwoods....but some of us are lawyers

If you define marriage as between and man and a woman who can produce children then what about men and women who choose not to have children or are infertile? If you want to define marriage as between a man and a woman (as many do) then that is a one perspective. I am not so concerned with terms as I am legal rights. Although there are many documented problems with the "civil union" label.

Unfortunately we cannot have legal documents drawn up to address all rights of marriage. No legal document will:

- Allow me visitation to my partner in the hospital. Hospitals usually have strict rules about visitation. (spouse, family etc.) There are literally hundreds of stories of gays and lesbians who could not visit there partners in the hospitals. With a civil union (or marriage or two-people legally connected) that right to visit must be acknowledged by hospitals. I can't wave some paper at the hospital staff and say -"See this notarized legal document says we're partners."

-Let my partner be covered by my company health insurance. Only a legal civil union or marriage will allow that. In fact I had to show my company my civil union license in order to get her coverage.

-Give me or my partner sick leave or bereavement leave. Employers won't give it unless you have a legal civil union or marriage.

-Entitle me or my partner to pension or social security benefits. (Federal issue)

These are just a few of the rights that a lawyer drawing up legal documents cannot offer gay and lesbian couples. I am sure there are more, but I'm not that well-versed in all the legal rights we do and don't have. Perhaps I should be if I'm going to engage in these debates.

BTW- I don't think anyone on this forum is "backwoods". I think that's insulting and I don't label people like that.

Now Mac _Muz may have lived in the back woods, but that guy is way smarter than me about how to live off the land.

[CaseyB]

Ok, you all have argued this to death.

Thread closed.