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I'm new to the area and am looking for recommendations for a good HVAC installer and also some advice...
I'm also new to the heating systems around here - I've only ever had electric heat my whole life. Gas for stove and water heater once. Oil and radiant heat systems are completely new to me.
So anyway, my furnace/boiler is on it's last legs (which I knew when I bought the place) and when Palmer oil came out to set up the account today and inspect the system, I was told that my tank failed and that they wouldn't deliver oil! The previous owner had an account with them that was serviced just months ago!
I also don't have AC, and was thinking about putting it in next year. I'm kind of at a loss for where to go now...Do I replace the tank and furnace and stay with an oil system? Or just go with propane? I have propane heat in half the house (a newer addition), so I already have a large propane tank that came with the property. I understand that oil is the most bang for your buck up here. I have a wood stove too, but I'm only interested in using that for back up. No pellet stoves for now.
It's a post and beam house with baseboard heat, so no ducts.
What's the best way to go if I have to replace heat and install AC? Everyone I've talked to says to do forced air (so add ducts) with propane.
I'm very interested in GeoThermal, but I understand it's expensive to install. Does anyone have any experience with GeoThermal?
Also, the oil tank is going to have to be cut into pieces to be removed. They apparently built the house around it. And the guy today told me that there's no way a new tank will fit through the opening to the nice huge room under my garage where the existing tank is.
To say that I'm confused might be an understatement. Good thing I just paid off my credit cards so I could buy this GD house. I guess I'm going to need them.
Last question: I paid $700 for the most extensive home inspection I could get and nothing was ever mentioned about the tank, or the fact that it's sitting on the ground and the concrete floor was poured around it! Among many other things that I've since discovered. Shouldn't this have been noted in a report?
I don't know what sort of recourse you have with your inspector, but if they didn't flag anything at all on the items that are kaput, I would call them and ask why this was not part of the report! Sorry you're dealing with this. Sounds beyond frustrating.
I am also new to the area and recommend that you join Angie's List to find a repair person. It's very inexpensive (less than $10 a yr I think). Good luck!
ETA: I agree that forced air w/propane is the way to go if you're going to get a whole new heating system. It is more efficient and is cleaner than oil. Propane, while more $ than oil today, it is a more stable market overall. Most, if not all new homes being built now in NH are getting forced air propane heat.
it should have either been noted in the report, or at least a note that it was not inspected.
I've used a number of HVAC contractors, and the only firm I can recommend is Bill Trombly.
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Originally Posted by Gatorman4017
Do I replace the tank and furnace and stay with an oil system?
This is definitely the time to consider all the options. Including a lawsuit against the inspector!
Geothermal (aka 'ground source heat pump') is great, very efficient, but also very very expensive to install, and not all housing lots are suitable for geothermal. I've heard good things from multiple people about Bill Wenzel for Geothermal installs.
An alternative to "ground source" is something like a "mini-split" (air source heat pump), possibly with propane as supplemental heat. Less expensive to install, and needs an alternate source of heat on the coldest days, but provides both heating and cooling with one unit and without installing large ducts everywhere.
An alternative to "ground source" is something like a "mini-split" (air source heat pump), possibly with propane as supplemental heat. Less expensive to install, and needs an alternate source of heat on the coldest days, but provides both heating and cooling with one unit and without installing large ducts everywhere.
Mini-splits are good alternatives if you don't have ducts. They can heat down to zero degrees temp outside with relatively good efficiency (not as good as ground source geo though). If you had a wood stove as a backup, it's probably all you'd need. Much cheaper than ground source Geo....
But I'd need a fairly extensive split system. The house is a T shape floorplan and 2 stories. I could be looking at $10K or more based on what I've read + supplemental heat, which leaves me back to replacing oil furnace components.
I'm starting to think that forced air propane might be the way to go, but I really want to get some estimates for Geothermal.
About my current situation, I'm almost out of oil (23 inches left). Can I buy oil myself anywhere? How would I transport it? Are there any other companies near Salem/Atkinson that might at least make one delivery so I can make it a little while longer? I have no idea what kind of time frame I would need to get this much work done. I imagine that HVAC guys are busy this time of year.
The inspector was National Property Inspections out of Manchester or Nashua. I looked them up before the inspection and they didn't have any negative info that I could find, but wow...
There is actually an AC system in the addition, with a cover on the compressor outside. He never took the cover off (I know because I had to cut the damn thing off myself to get it off), so he never even looked at it. It's a total loss. Rodents have eaten the insides completely. He didn't mention anything about it that day (because he didn't even look at it) and the report I got a week later just says "Not in use" with reference to the AC. Again, no mention of an issue with the bottom of the oil tank sitting below ground or possibly being near failure. I have electrical problems with the water heater that 2 different guys have pointed out to me at a glance since I moved in.
And now, looking at the paperwork today I discovered that the inspection was only $447...But we were charged an additional $205 for water testing...that we had declined (and was never done!) because it had been done recently by the homeowner. We paid the amount the inspector said that day without having an itemized service list.
I'm seriously considering legal action if possible. I at least want my money back for the inspection. I would have probably offered 20K less for the house had I known any of this stuff. They sure do put a lot of CYA crap in the front of the report though.
Truly, that is bad news-to have both your heating system AND your oil tank be in failure. How long ago did you purchase this house? If less than 6 months, the tank should be in the same condition that it is now, which means that somebody missed something. Have you thought of getting a 2nd opinion of the tank? The oil company must have come out to read the tank just prior to the closing-why was this not caught and noted before closing? Did you do a walkthrough just prior to close to note these issues (Oil companies generally flag and shut down the system if it's unsafe to operate).
I have to ask how did you choose your inspector? Did you have a separate heating system evaluation (it's only about $80, money well spent, in my opinion).
Hopefully your septic inspector (if you have private septic) did a thorough examination of the tank, d-box and leachfield (my recommended inspector takes the extra step of using a push-cam to visually inspect the system from the inside (the pipe from tank to d-box) then exposing the d-box, THEN using the push-cam to examine each pvc pipe of the leachfield. I can't tell you the number of cracked d-boxes and crushed field pipes that this thorough inspection has exposed...
As mentioned above, I'd get a second opinion on your "failed" oil tank. Also, if you didn't want to spend a ton of money this year for a real solution, you could find somebody to drop off a 275 gallon tank, "retire" the existing oil tank (drain it, remove the fill and vent), hook the new one to your furnace, and for about $1K, buy time to make a final decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorman4017
About my current situation, I'm almost out of oil (23 inches left). Can I buy oil myself anywhere? How would I transport it? Are there any other companies near Salem/Atkinson that might at least make one delivery so I can make it a little while longer? I have no idea what kind of time frame I would need to get this much work done. I imagine that HVAC guys are busy this time of year.
You can use regular on-road diesel fuel, purchased at the gas station and transported in gas cans. Figure 2-3 gallons a day (for average October weather). Gas station owners are used to people filling up the big yellow 5 gallon cans at the pump, but you can use any color gas can, just clean it before refilling with gasoline.
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But I'd need a fairly extensive split system. The house is a T shape floorplan and 2 stories. I could be looking at $10K or more based on what I've read + supplemental heat, which leaves me back to replacing oil furnace components. I'm starting to think that forced air propane might be the way to go, but I really want to get some estimates for Geothermal.
Installation cost for the split system may be lower than forced air propane, as you wouldn't need ductwork.
Heating "operating cost" cost ($ per million BTU) for air source heat pump is lower than propane or oil. Geothermal operating costs are lower still, partly because you wouldn't need supplemental heat even in in February.
I realize as all this is happening how incredibly little I know about any of these systems - partially because we didn't have them in the warmer climate I'm from, and partly because I've lived in rentals all of my adult life.
"Heating "operating cost" cost ($ per million BTU) for air source heat pump is lower than propane or oil." What exactly are you talking about when you say air source heat pump?
Can you seriously use Diesel fuel? Just pour it in the tank? That sounds like the kind of thing one person would say and 10 others would say he was crazy. Not that I would know.
Yeah, I'm scratching my head about the ducts. We could put them in the basement with floor registers on the first floor, but I don't know to build them in to get to the second floor.
I'll give Bill Trombly a call on Monday. I am a member of Angie's List, but there are a lot of people that aren't on there. When you search Geothermal for example, no one comes up in the area.
It's really none of my business, but did you have a Buyer's Agent working on your behalf? I spent some time yesterday & today with relo Buyers from Texas, and much of our time together today was spent explaining heating systems (forced hot water vs forced hot air, and some of the pro/cons of each), basements (footings, foundations and floors), the benefits of a passive radon reduction system (just in case the numbers change over time) and many things that we New Englanders just take for granted but may be entirely new to folks from outside the area. One of my biggest fears (professionally) is to hear from a buyer that something was missed during inspection or that they have buyers remorse...
And yes, you can use diesel fuel to run your oil-burner. But get that 2nd opinion on the tank soon. If failure really is imminent, you don't want to take a chance on leakage or contamination. Concrete is porous, oil polloution is an EPA issue, and homeowners insurance does not cover fuel leaks or cleanup costs.
Last edited by Valerie C; 10-09-2015 at 08:59 PM..
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it should have either been noted in the report, or at least a note that it was not inspected.
