where should we move in nh? (Manchester, Concord: sales, apartment, rent)

[kevinbelt]

Rather unexpectedly, I've been confronted with the possibility of moving to New England. I'm not entirely thrilled about this, but I guess I need some more information to properly make a decision. The thing is, we don't really know where to go, so suggest some places for me.

For several years, my wife and I had been planning to move back to her hometown (Buffalo, NY) after she's done with grad school and her postgrad fellowship. That's this August. We just had a big wrench thrown in those plans, though, when her mom bought a condo in New Hampshire. Although it wasn't the only reason we were planning to move to Buffalo, having her mom nearby was a major benefit. (Her dad - they're divorced - is retiring in a month to his lake house an hour outside the city.) I still like Buffalo well enough, but at this point, it's no different than any other random city. I like Milwaukee too, but why would I move there?

The reason her mom moved is, in part, because the rest of her family lives on the east coast. She has a sister, niece, and nephew in Portland, Maine; a sister in Boston; a sister in Brooklyn; and her brother is in the process of moving to Cambridge. Her mom chose Exeter, NH, as it's roughly halfway between Portland and Boston. Now, my wife feels a bit left out, and she wants to be near everyone else, too.

In particular, she grew up very close with a few of her cousins (one of whom now lives in Jamaica Plain, and another who is most likely going to start grad school at Tufts in the fall), and she wants our daughter (and any other kids we have in the future) to have the same thing. For various reasons, my brother and sister are unlikely to have children, and so any cousins our child(ren) would have would be on her side. That, combined with having her mom nearby, has given her a strong desire to move to somewhere in New England.

Now, I like New England well enough. I've been to Portland and Boston both a couple of times, and I spent a week in 2008 going to a bunch of little towns in New Hampshire during the primary. Great place to visit. But I think most of the places I've traveled have been great places to visit. It doesn't mean I'd want to live there. I'm from the midwest (Ohio), and that's a pretty strong part of my identity. It would be a big psychological change for me to become a northeasterner. My preference would be to stay here in Ohio, but in order to make that case, I need to at least know what I'm arguing against, and who knows? Maybe I could find a place that would change my mind.

So here are my criteria:

-Within a two-hour drive of Portland. This limits the search area to southern Maine, southeastern New Hampshire, and northeastern Massachusetts.

-Within a one-hour drive of Exeter, NH. This is probably redundant, as Exeter is an hour from Portland, although it does rule out other cities in Maine north of Portland.

-Preferably not Portland or Exeter, though. I've been to both, and I like them well enough. I know my way around Portland well enough that I could find something to eat (Pizza Joint, Elevation Burger, etc.) without having to Yelp my way around, and my wife knows it even better. My reluctance is based on the fact that my sister-in-law is already there. Not that I don't like her. It's just, my wife is the middle child of her family, and her Portland sister is the oldest, and their personalities and family dynamic are such that my sister-in-law tends to overwhelm my wife. I'd like my wife to have some space of her own, so that she can live her own life and not just be her sister's little sister, you know? I mean, there's a reason that I'm the one asking about moving to New England, rather than her sister asking about moving to Ohio. The same is true, to a lesser extent, with Exeter. Nice town, I've driven through, but we'd be in the shadow of her mom the whole time. It's one thing in a bigger city like Buffalo, but another in a smaller town like Exeter.

-Not exurban. I'm OK with suburbs, but the inner-ring, early twentieth century kind, not sprawling McMansion-and-chain store places where you never even go into the city center. We currently live in between Grandview Heights and Upper Arlington in Columbus, and I've lived in University City in the St. Louis area, if that gives an idea of what I like. My wife lived in Somerville for a while before we met, and I think that area is fine. It sounds like exurbs don't really exist in New England like they do in Ohio, but I'm still a little skeptical of areas around the 495.

-Anything else - downtown, inner-ring suburbs, medium-sized towns, middle of nowhere, etc. - is OK. I just don't want that in-between state, where you've got the remoteness of being in the middle of nowhere, but you're surrounded by crap development and McMansions.

-Proximity to a college. My wife works in student services, and I enjoy going to lectures, football games, etc. There are enough colleges in the region that I don't expect this should really disqualify anywhere.

-Reasonable cost of living. We pay $975 for a 2br apartment in Columbus, and I'd like to stay around that range if possible. I know this is somewhat unrealistic, but the closer we can get to $1000/month, the better. Long term, if we buy a house, we'd probably be looking in the $250k range or below, I imagine. (So Somerville's out.)

-Good public schools. Our daughter is only two months old, so this is a while off, but I don't want to have to move again when she starts school. Public schools are important; I'm not interested in sending my kid to a private school.

-Midwestern feel. I grew up in a small town in Ohio, and that's something I enjoy. Mom-and-pop hamburger stands, miniature golf, soft-serve ice cream, lots of corn and cows. You know, Main Street America stuff. (Interestingly, part of the reason I was so on board with Buffalo is because Buffalo has this midwestern feel to me.)

I'm aware that the answer is "Vermont". But alas, even the closest parts of Vermont are still too far from Portland. Otherwise, that would be a no-brainer.

So give me your best shot. Is there a place in New England that's so great I can't turn it down?

[I'm cross-posting this to the MA and ME forums as well, so apologies if you see this more than once.]

[LeviDunn]

1k for a 2 bedroom is going to limit the areas you can live. You should sit down with a calculator and figure out how much in state income taxes you would pay if you were to live in ME, VT and MA. The amount you will save not paying it in NH might lessen the sticker shock of high rents and property taxes here.

Are you able to visit before moving? Having a week to drive all over NH to see the areas and towns would be very beneficial.

[Nonesuch]

I recommend doing the following:

Make time for either one week-long visit, or multiple weekends
Decide on your "must have" criteria, make a list of towns that fit (sounds like you've completed most of this step already)
Rent first, then buy
Move here because it's New Hampshire, not just because of drive time to Maine

Originally Posted by kevinbelt

Within a one-hour drive of Exeter, NH. This is probably redundant, as Exeter is an hour from Portland, although it does rule out other cities in Maine north of Portland.

There are a number of nice towns along 101 west of Exeter, I would start with Candia and spiral out from there. You probably want to make a list of towns with acceptable school rankings, and then setup a search on NNEREN to get an idea of home prices.

Not exurban. I'm OK with suburbs, but the inner-ring, early twentieth century kind, not sprawling McMansion-and-chain store places where you never even go into the city center.

New Hampshire does have some stretches of characterless exurbs, but in general they exist as narrow retail corridors that very quickly drop off into "suburbs" and then into a mix of quaint New England small towns and the "truly rural" middle-of-nowhere zones where the only time you meet your neighbor is when one of their dairy goats escapes again.

-Midwestern feel. I grew up in a small town in Ohio, and that's something I enjoy. Mom-and-pop hamburger stands, miniature golf, soft-serve ice cream, lots of corn and cows. You know, Main Street America stuff. (Interestingly, part of the reason I was so on board with Buffalo is because Buffalo has this midwestern feel to me.)

This could be a little tough, at best you may find that our Main Street America stuff are the originals that small towns in Ohio were emulating, and be okay with that.

Reasonable cost of living. We pay $975 for a 2br apartment in Columbus, and I'd like to stay around that range if possible. I know this is somewhat unrealistic, but the closer we can get to $1000/month, the better. Long term, if we buy a house, we'd probably be looking in the $250k range or below, I imagine.

Cost of living, especially rent and property tax, is high compared to Ohio, and only partly offset by the lack of income and sales taxes.

Renting or owning in your budget is possible. You'd need to avoid areas within commuting distance of a major city and be willing to deal with an older house in a town with fewer tax-bill-increasing luxuries (trash pickup, municipal water and sewer, etc).

[bigbear99]

Your list has so many things that are mutually exclusive that you need to re-think things. I grew up in the midwest too, but was glad to leave it. New England is different. You need to learn to appreciate it for what it is.

Cost will be an issue. Unless you go way out from metro Boston (western MA, SW NH, NE of Portland, N of Concord NH) you will find housing expensive.

[Brave Stranger]

The COL in a lot of New England is astronomical. I get the "happy wife happy life thing" but finding the things you are looking for in a decent town is going to be very difficult with your budget. If you find something you like it may leave you a 2 hour drive from most of your family members.....

[Bruins_Fan]

Honestly, I'd probably stay in the midwest due to the exceptionally high cost of living in New England. I'm originally from the midwest, but moved here as a kid and sometimes wish my parents hadn't moved us to such an expensive place all those years ago!

[bigbear99]

^ Cost of living is higher in New England states, driven by a few factors. Housing is the biggest component. Heating is about 20% higher here. Food and medical care about 10% higher, depending on location. OTOH, we get the best medical care in the country here, especially around Boston.

Draw a two hour travel ring around Boston, and you have 5 states. Even within each state, locations vary widely. Compare SW NH to SE NH. Same state, two different worlds with different prices. Look N. to Concord, and see another world.

Suggestion: find the point equidistant from the places you want to be near and the places you don't. Then none of the family can complain about favoritism. Just make sure that point is not in Mass bay or the ocean!

[Samandgiasmom]

Portsmouth and the Seacoast meet your criteria except for cost

[bigbear99]

FWIW, after re-reading the OP's fondness for Buffalo, I think the "midwest" feel the OP wants could also be called "rustbelt" ambiance. Hard to find in New England, except maybe Worcester, and that's too far from Exeter. Manchester used to be rustbelt like with its abandoned mills, but those have been long recycled. OP might still find the vibe he wants in Manchester, and housing is more affordable as long as you stay away from Bedford. Further west towns are smaller, terrain more rugged, and vibe is distinctly New England, not Midwest.

[gf2020]

I posted the same reply on your Massachusetts forum thread:

Where would your jobs be located?

Find employment first and then find a housing solution that makes sense depending on your budget, tolerance for commuting and other requirements.