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Oh that's the fun part. We get new income and sales taxes, but no relief on our high property taxes. Then we still get told they haven't taken enough to pay for everything.
I get it now. Yes, I can see your fear. I'm just less pessimistic I guess. I'm more irritated how Sununu et all gave a break to companies at the expense of us property owners. Kinda the opposite of your fear?
I get it now. Yes, I can see your fear. I'm just less pessimistic I guess. I'm more irritated how Sununu et all gave a break to companies at the expense of us property owners. Kinda the opposite of your fear?
Why would you not expect exactly what Fifty Seven said? Where has it worked out that adding an income tax or sales tax has lowered property taxes for any useful amount of time?
I get it now. Yes, I can see your fear. I'm just less pessimistic I guess. I'm more irritated how Sununu et all gave a break to companies at the expense of us property owners. Kinda the opposite of your fear?
Well you should be more pessimistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa
If you want to know what NH with an income tax will be like, look at Connecticut. That's exhibit A.
Took the words out of my mouth... CT's income tax was intended to be temporary at4.5% and now its what, 7%? What a joke.
Why would you not expect exactly what Fifty Seven said? Where has it worked out that adding an income tax or sales tax has lowered property taxes for any useful amount of time?
Ah, I see. CT is in a "death spiral" due to rising taxes. For them income.
But New Hampshire has rising property taxes together with service cuts. And that's better. Only rising income taxes lead to death spirals, not rising property taxes.
This makes sense only for true believers. And true believers tend to impute certain things that were never said to those that disagree with some of their wilder prognostications.
There's nothing more to be gained by further discussion here. I'll sign out.
New Hampshire already has an income tax- basically a 5% flat tax on interest and dividends. It has a "services" tax of 9% on restaurant meals, etc. It has a business income tax of 8.2% and a "business enterprise" tax of 0.72%. The latter is a nuisance tax. It has a yearly "car tax" on the book value of cars, which is why a lot of New Hampshirites drive older cars.
The property tax is now so onerous for the average family in many towns (Claremont comes to mind) that people are moving out and the infrastructure is crumbling.
I predict that eventually New Hampshire will be forced to adopt a regular income tax and a regular sales tax.
When we "retired" from WY-MT ranching in 2007, we had looked at NH and TN but decided the taxes were already too high. Now it's worse. As the states haven't fully funded their state pension programs, they'll be looking to tax whatever is not nailed down and some stuff that is. Vehicle taxes were onerous and regressive where we lived for 35 yrs. WY had no income or corp tax, but plenty of fees. MT has both taxes and lots of fees. Made it difficult to make a living wage go far enough.
Oh. You prefer our current high property taxes? Or are you advocating cutting services across the board? Maybe less highway repair. Maybe not waste so much on snow plowing? Addiction services? Let the addicted OD. After all, when they're gone, they're not a drain on the public purse, are they? Health care for the poor? If they die younger, we save again.
Yeah, let's conveniently forget that the drug epidemic was created by the medical industry, funded by government ( taxpayer ) and a great way to create more governmental agencies ( oh, taxpayer again ) And wow, government healthcare.. that worked out real good !
The hidden agenda of "broad based" tax plans -- shifting power and revenue from towns to Concord
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99
Ah, I see. CT is in a "death spiral" due to rising taxes. For them income.
But New Hampshire has rising property taxes together with service cuts. And that's better. Only rising income taxes lead to death spirals, not rising property taxes.
Property taxes are primarily levied by, and controlled by the town, giving local control over your tax rate. If you and your neighbors want more services, you can vote to increase your town's tax rate. Or not.
Connecticut added an income tax with the promise of property tax relief, now their property taxes are pretty much the same as the NH average, and their total tax burden puts them in the top ten most revenue-extracting states in the US, and the bottom ten states in which to be middle class.
Consider also Vermont, which gave up the sales tax fight back in 1969.. Since instituting a sales tax, there have been multiple increases topping out at a 6% sales tax and a steep "progressive" income tax (up to 8.95%), and [url="http://www.howmoneywalks.com/new-hampshire-vs-vermont-a-tale-of-two-state-tax-plans/"]Vermont property taxes are pretty much on par/URL]. Like Connecticut, Vermont is consistently in the top ten states for total tax burden. So all Vermont has really managed to do is shift revenue and power from towns to Montpelier.
That's one "side" effect the democrats will never talk about -- the unspoken end game of pushing for more taxation collected by the state (to be parceled out to the towns in "property tax relief") is that shifting revenue and control over program funding to the statehouse also moves political power to Concord.
Property taxes are primarily levied by, and controlled by the town, giving local control over your tax rate. If you and your neighbors want more services, you can vote to increase your town's tax rate. Or not.
Our tax bill lists a town tax component, state tax component, county tax component and school tax component. Schools are grouped regionally and we are at the mercy of others in the district on voting those costs up or down. They always go up. I have no problem paying for the services any of these components provide (within reason) - but it is the legacy costs that we must burden that are the problem. Kick all public employees off pensions and let them pay for their own retirement like most everyone else. Do that and watch your taxes drop like a stone. This will come into focus more and more as unfunded federal and state public pensions start raising your taxes and fees. Not a matter of if - it's a matter of when... and when is coming soon.
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The hidden agenda of "broad based" tax plans -- shifting power and revenue from towns to Concord
