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I have posted this before but I will post again. We have a 2000 sq ft house on two acres, built it ten years ago and pay $5000 per year. For that $5000 we get police, fire, snow removal, an educated populace, ample opportunities for employment, clean air, well maintained road, a pristine lake down the road, endless hiking opportunities, free skiing for seniors at two mountains and much more than I care to type.
What do people want? If we lived or worked in any other northeast state our income tax alone would be double our property tax.
I have posted this before but I will post again. We have a 2000 sq ft house on two acres, built it ten years ago and pay $5000 per year. For that $5000 we get police, fire, snow removal, an educated populace, ample opportunities for employment, clean air, well maintained road, a pristine lake down the road, endless hiking opportunities, free skiing for seniors at two mountains and much more than I care to type.
What do people want? If we lived or worked in any other northeast state our income tax alone would be double our property tax.
What is the assessed value of your property? What town are you in?
To answer your question: I want fair and equitable taxation to support social services across all residents of the state - not primarily property owners.
I'd also like snow removal, free skiing and ample employment opportunities. Many rural towns don't have the business base to provide employment at incomes to cover the cost of living in those areas.
Sooner or later, local taxes will become so onerous that the NH legislature will be forced to impose a general income tax on the people.
I submit PA's income tax as a model. It's a flat tax of 3.07% on all categories of income. The rate started out at 2.2% in the early 1970s but when a democrat is elected to the governorship, spending increases and so does the tax rate. The PA constitution does not permit progressive taxation. There is no such provision in the NH constitution.
Note that all categories of income are included except combat pay and retirement income. If you are a sole proprietor or partner in a business, that income is also included. Compare that to NH's 8.5% business profits tax, which applies to every business and professional practice that's not a corporation.
How do they define retirement income? Do I have to be one of the lucky few who's receiving a government pension? What about those of us without that option who saved our money and are living (partially) off income from savings? Does it matter if the savings are in an IRA vs a regular bank or investment account? That form you linked doesn't show any exclusion for any of these sources of retirement income.
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Originally Posted by jdhpa
What will happen is everyone's taxes will go up and everyone will pay more. Pennsylvania is an excellent example. This site shows average tax burden by state:
rank 1 == highest tax burden, rank 50 == lowest tax burden. New Hampshire is 44, Pennsylvania is 15. Pennsylvania's tax burden is 30% higher than New Hampshire's. You can get the exact same effect today if you want without creating a state income tax, just raise all property taxes by 30% across the board.
More types of taxes == higher taxes for everyone. If you go to bed every night upset that New Hampshire just isn't spending enough yet on schools, that class sizes of 10 kids is outrageous and it should be more like 5 kids per class, voting for a state income tax is definitely the way to go.
Yikes. Don't even joke about a thing like that. My property taxes just went up about 60% over 5-6 years for a Taj Mahal school.
What is the assessed value of your property? What town are you in?
To answer your question: I want fair and equitable taxation to support social services across all residents of the state - not primarily property owners.
I'd also like snow removal, free skiing and ample employment opportunities. Many rural towns don't have the business base to provide employment at incomes to cover the cost of living in those areas.
The key is to choose your NH town carefully so get the property tax you want to pay. Should services be what you want perhaps a more progressive state like MA is where you should be. NH is a conservative state.
Property taxes take money from landowners (that we've worked hard to acquire) and distribute it to pay for services that others in the community that don't own property benefit from.
Income taxes take disproportionately (progressively) more from those that (usually) work harder than others to attain what they earn. Individuals that work harder or smarter than others should not be punished for their success.
Sales taxes are the most equitable, as they are a consumption based solution. You only get taxed when you decide to spend your money. Those that have more money to spend, or those that decide to spend instead of save pay the most in taxes.
25 years ago they said it was inevitable NH was due for an income tax. No thanks then, or now. Any new broad-based tax will be adjusted over time to grow.
Taxes increase over time. That is inevitable especially when state employees have collective bargaining rights.
Before a state income tax is imposed in NH, the NH Constitution needs to be amended to outlaw progressive taxation. Otherwise, the tax rates will go through the roof.
Connecticut and New Jersey are good examples. Brendan Byrne ran for governor of New Jersey in 1974 on a platform of imposing a personal income tax on the citizens and won. Like in PA, the pressure of the baby boom generation on school funding was the driving factor.
The marginal rates for the original NJ income tax were 2%, 2.5% and 3.5%. Most people paid at 2% or 2.5%. The new Governor of NJ, Phil Murphy (a Massachusetts native), just raised the top rate to 10.75%.
In 1991, CT governor Lowell Weicker, signed on to a state personal income tax. It was a flat tax of 4.5%. It became progressive and the maximum rate now is 6.99%. In 2020, CT is facing a big budget deficit and Gov. Ted Lamont is under intense pressure to raise the maximum income tax rate once again.
Taxes increase over time unless and until voters put a stop to it. It's only inevitable if voters accept it.
There's always pressure for taxes to go up because there's no limit to the number of "good" things that can be done with other peoples' money. That's not a statement about "good" things, it's a statement about the willingness to have other people pay for things you think are important, but that you're not willing to sacrifice for yourself.
Instead of voting for tax increases, or for politicians who vote for tax increases, insist that increased spending be paid for exclusively by voluntary contributions. It won't work, because when people have to make sacrifices themselves, all of a sudden they discover trade-offs and priorities, concepts which don't come into play when it's other peoples' money being spent.
Honest question: If taxes take a higher percentage of your income every year, at what percentage will you feel enough is enough?
Taxes increase over time. That is inevitable especially when state employees have collective bargaining rights.
Before a state income tax is imposed in NH, the NH Constitution needs to be amended to outlaw progressive taxation. Otherwise, the tax rates will go through the roof.
Connecticut and New Jersey are good examples. Brendan Byrne ran for governor of New Jersey in 1974 on a platform of imposing a personal income tax on the citizens and won. Like in PA, the pressure of the baby boom generation on school funding was the driving factor.
The marginal rates for the original NJ income tax were 2%, 2.5% and 3.5%. Most people paid at 2% or 2.5%. The new Governor of NJ, Phil Murphy (a Massachusetts native), just raised the top rate to 10.75%.
In 1991, CT governor Lowell Weicker, signed on to a state personal income tax. It was a flat tax of 4.5%. It became progressive and the maximum rate now is 6.99%. In 2020, CT is facing a big budget deficit and Gov. Ted Lamont is under intense pressure to raise the maximum income tax rate once again.
It's not just the inevitable tax increases that come along with an income or sales tax, as you provided with examples in your post...it's the addition of an entirely new broad-based tax that allows the citizens to get fleeced.
I would rather see NH scrape & grapple to put together a budget year after year as it has done most years than getting fat & happy with a new source of income.
Tax bills always go up, but it's our own darn fault if the tax RATE also increases year-over-year
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Originally Posted by Brave Stranger
It's not just the inevitable tax increases that come along with an income or sales tax, as you provided with examples in your post...it's the addition of an entirely new broad-based tax that allows the citizens to get fleeced.
Even worse, it is the addition of an entirely new broad-based tax, with the rate set and funds collected by the state government (rather than locally).
We already have to deal with newcomers who show up at the town meeting and say "If we just raise everybody's property tax rate by 5 mills then we can give people living in the town center weekly garbage pickup and public transit services", it's even easier to get a couple hundred state reps to back "minimal" increases in the income tax rate to fund the progressive social program du jour.
At least with town-based taxation supporters need to stand up in front of their neighbors (literally and figuratively) and justify taking their money or see their budget line item zeroed or their warrant articles defeated by popular vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5
I submit PA's income tax as a model. It's a flat tax of 3.07% on all categories of income. The rate started out at 2.2% in the early 1970s ...
So the PA tax rate has increased by 40% since it was first passed, meaning the average residents state income tax bill has doubled. I doubt an income or capital gains tax in NH would fare any better -- give our state government a new tool for revenue extraction, and we can work our way up to rival PA's ranking for "state/local tax burden".
Even worse, it is the addition of an entirely new broad-based tax, with the rate set and funds collected by the state government (rather than locally).
We already have to deal with newcomers who show up at the town meeting and say "If we just raise everybody's property tax rate by 5 mills then we can give people living in the town center weekly garbage pickup and public transit services", it's even easier to get a couple hundred state reps to back "minimal" increases in the income tax rate to fund the progressive social program du jour.
At least with town-based taxation supporters need to stand up in front of their neighbors (literally and figuratively) and justify taking their money or see their budget line item zeroed or their warrant articles defeated by popular vote.
So the PA tax rate has increased by 40% since it was first passed, meaning the average residents state income tax bill has doubled. I doubt an income or capital gains tax in NH would fare any better -- give our state government a new tool for revenue extraction, and we can work our way up to rival PA's ranking for "state/local tax burden".
Local control, as you mentioned, seems to go right over the heads of these people when they devise new tax systems to "fix" NH. These tax proposals we see pop up have been shown to not work in other states that have adopted them over & over again. It's very frustrating to see, what I can only suggest, is a lack of common sense & critical thinking abilities concerning these issues.
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Tax bills always go up, but it's our own darn fault if the tax RATE also increases year-over-year
