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There is still lots of hope for NH i feel. I am relatively young (22 years old), and almost all kids my age, most of whom should fall into the college educated liberal mold, hold very conservative values. The problem is that they don't really even know what a liberal is. They just hear from their college professors that republicans are bad, and vote accordingly. I try my best to open the eyes of my friends and show them what liberalism is really all about, as much as my ranting annoys them. My point is, we have a good young base of conservatism in this state, these people just need to start thinking independently.
Well said and very true, StokerAce. However, college professors are only the last stop. It begins much earlier in the educational process then college. Have you ever noticed the results taken from straw polls or mock elections involving grade, Jr. High or High schools?
As I pull the handle on my personal "way back machine", I find myself returned to the year 1960. The Kennedy/Nixon debates were in black and white (at least in my home). The mock election was held the next day. Total school votes amounted to about 450. The results of the mock election was approximately 425 Kennedy and 25 Nixon. And, this was in New Hampshire! We all know the end of the story.
I was one of the 25 Nixon voters. At ten years of age, I never told anyone whom I voted for, for fear of ridicule and, actually considered I may have done something wrong.
Well said and very true, StokerAce. However, college professors are only the last stop. It begins much earlier in the educational process then college. Have you ever noticed the results taken from straw polls or mock elections involving grade, Jr. High or High schools?
As I pull the handle on my personal "way back machine", I find myself returned to the year 1960. The Kennedy/Nixon debates were in black and white (at least in my home). The mock election was held the next day. Total school votes amounted to about 450. The results of the mock election was approximately 425 Kennedy and 25 Nixon. And, this was in New Hampshire! We all know the end of the story.
I was one of the 25 Nixon voters. At ten years of age, I never told anyone whom I voted for, for fear of ridicule and, actually considered I may have done something wrong.
That's very true. My younger brother, a high school student, had a teacher around election time who was telling the class of students that if John McCain were elected, he planned on re-instating the draft and they would all end up in Iraq. My brother called him out on his lie, and he backtracked but still, to use lies and scare tactics to try to brainwash such impressionable minds is a disgrace. These were high school seniors too, so some were of voting age.
I have to bring this up because I think it applies VERY well to NH. Essentially what is "liberal" and "conservative" and "republican" and "democrat"- my belief:
Republican & Democrat: mean NOTHING; they are simply titles given to political parties- as we've seen both democrats and republicans can be liberal or conservative with regard to certain issues. There is nothing tying a democrat or a republican to a certain viewpoint and their party alone doesn't determine their actions (how conservative was Bush with regard to fiscal policy?)
Liberal & Conservative: mean NOTHING; EXCEPT when applied to specific items:
Fiscally Conservative- believes in a constrained budget
Environmentally Liberal- believes that we (as a whole) have a responsibility to protect the world in which we live
Militarily Conservative- believes in a small military/low military spending
Militarily Liberal- believes in a powerful military and higher military spending
I think that people lose sight of what these terms really means and fail to apply these terms properly. However- I believe that by applying these terms specifically and appropriately it is the best way to drive change. Simply saying "we want a conservative" doesn't say enough; are we talking conservative regarding gay marriage- or fiscal issues? And saying "liberal" does nothing either as many "conservative" supporters actually have liberal values in regard to specific issues (defense, etc)...
Therefore rather than the whole "republicans are good/bad, democrats are good/bad" or "conservatives are good/bad, liberals are good bad"...we should instead be going for what we REALLY want: fiscally conservative...blah blah blah liberal...blah blah blah conservative values...all in the same individual- regardless of party.
These broad generalizations are what is getting folks with no real integrity elected because it is dumbing down the process. Who cares if they are a republican or a democrat as long as they do what you want them too the title means little... To improve NH, we need to raise the bar and be educated voters who call specifically for what we want rather than throwing blanket support behind a party or simple generalized term.
It scares me to see issues so complicated as country or state leadership boiled down into an invidual word...and then a value applied to it.
...for the record this is directed at NO-ONE, it is merely my opinion that we are over-simplifying what should be a complex and well understood matter.
HUGE Reps to you Brian!!! I completely agree with you. I am always looking for objective information on how candidates view *issues* regardless of what party they are affiliated with. I've found a few sites that work well for me but I was disappointed at how hard it can be to find such sites and information.
A few folks were lamenting the fact that anti-president Bush sentiments pollute voters choices at the state level and were trying to figure out how that could happen. What you note above is how that happens, imho -- folks trying to boil down someone's position on a selection of issues into a single label. It just doesn't work. You have to get behind the labels to really understand who you are voting for. Sometimes that myou are forced to choose between the lesser of two evils. Sometimes you can find a candidate you can really get behind. Sometimes you have to focus on one or two issues that matter most to you and vote on those.
Gone are the days where I vote the party line. In 2004 I couldn't stomach either Bush or Kerry -- neither came close to my own values. I voted Libertarion at the national level because I don't have it in me to not vote at all. Maybe I wasted my vote but I could look myself in the mirror for the next four years.
Sounds pretty good to me. But that's not what our politicians (regardless of democrat/republican/liberal/conservative generic one-word label) are supporting (for the most part, obviously there are plenty of exceptions).
Definitions & single words are being thrown around so openly...with no real definition behind them; that hurts us. We need to force (with our votes) politicians to really do what we want; and that can't be done through simplification/word vilification.
One of the huge strengths I've noticed in NH is the independance of voters- there doesn't seem to be a blanket party support here. People actually vote for what they believe in. Unfortunately there is also a ton of mis-information and a plethora of liars- so this complicates matters.
I've heard the argument "I vote for this party because they *mostly* support X"...but that gives no real incentive to politicians to think independantly and actually vote for what their constituents want; we need to persist. If you don't like who you are getting- KEEP voting against them until you do.
Actually I don't see everyone "throwing around words". I do however, agree that the terms conservative and liberal have been used quite "liberally" both here and every where. I believe that I am pretty consistent in my postings-I am for fiscal conservatism and I am for the government out of my life and my pocketbook. I am against a nanny state. In regards to NH, if you can find a fiscally conservative democrat, I will be glad to take a look. I mean this in all seriousness- if you can find one in the statehouse with a consistent record of this please show me. While the republicans in this state are far from perfect and there are many non-fiscally conservative republicans -there are still at least a few fiscally conservative republicans who still exist in the state house. I cannot say the same about the Dems.
I do agree on the federal level moreso that republican and democrat can mean different things and there are numerous types of definitions for "liberal" and " conservative". I personally am disgusted by both parties and have voted third party or write-in for president since 2000. I believe on the federal level both parties take for granted that there are people on both sides who will march to the polls like sheep every four years and pull an R or D-no matter what. There are also people who refuse to vote third party because they consider it a wasted vote. That is really a shame. I mean the R and D know you are going to vote for them-so they make all kinds of promises to their "base" and they go to DC and vote in the best interests of lobbyists, etc. not the people who sent them there. If anyone thinks this next administration is going to be any different, they are in for a rude awakening. And I would be saying this whether Obama or McCain won. Until we as voters vote in those who are not beholden to corporations, special interests and lobbyists, we will never see any positive significant "change" that the masses in this country seem to crave.
Oh, I don't necessarily mean people on this board and I know you are very clear about where you stand. I want to re-iterate how my postings were directed toward no-one on this board or in particular.
I just mean in general- the media, people on the street, etc. Very seldom do I talk with people who break down what their values really are (issue by issue) and then vote accordingly. Likewise I seldom see political signs that say "vote fiscally conservative", etc...that is MUCH more powerful than "vote republican" or "vote democrat" because it forces the focus to an issue- rather than a label. It also raises the political discussion to a higher level which will, if widespread, force politicians to be more accountable to the particular set of views they run with.
I also agree with you that there is a huge difference (at least with regard to NH) in state and federal level politicians. To me, this is actually a GOOD thing- as NH still has some very real "differences" between candidates (comparatively speaking). I really need to do some more research into state government. I did enough to vote this time around...but I need to start looking outside my district/town/etc.
I still don't understand what Dick Cheney and neocons have to do with a local state house rep in NH. There are plenty of state reps who lost in the last election who are not neocons/whatever term you want to use-who are for fiscal conservatism and certainly against NH being a nanny state. I don't understand why people have jeopardized the future of NH-in the last 2 elections now-because they hate George Bush.
Again, this goes back to my issue with the 2 party system. Dick Cheney and Karl Rove really have nothing to do with our republican state reps...other than the title next to their name. Buuuuut, that R or D is, for better or worse, tied to the leaders of that party and associated with it. Cheney, Bush, etc. are the figureheads of the republican party, and as such reflect on anyone else in politics who identifies themselves in the same party.
Most voters, especially at the state and local level, don't REALLY pay attention to the actual stances of the person they are voting for or against. They are usually uninformed. The one thing they do know are the R and the D, and unfortunately in this election, they voted against the R due to guilt by association.....even if it wasn't justified.
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