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My family and I are scheduled for relocation at the end of the year. This forum has been a great help in the process. We had recently spent a week in the area and I'd like to share my thoughts with the forums and others which probably ask themselves the same questions.
We will be working in the Cheltenham area and center city and we have an infant son. It was important for us to find quality of living, excellent day care (Jewish orientation being a big plus), and some form of local "downtown". We visited Philadelphia, its suburbs to the north and west and South Jersey. Here is my take.
I've submitted this thread both to the Philadelphia and South Jersey forums as it is relevant to both.
Philadelphia
Philadelphia itself is a relatively rough city. It's beautiful but rugged and I believe it has a lot of unused potential. The city, and the area as a whole is characterized (from a week's perspective) by sharp shifts from beautiful areas to some of the worst I've seen. Both in the city and in the suburbs. As far as the city goes I couldn't help but feel the city doesn't do enough to improve. I couldn't understand how some of the best universities in the US cannot transform the areas around them. Very frustrating I imagine. The police doesn't do a lot either, as far as the feeling of personal security when walking down the streets. I imagine that has to do with budget cuts but NYC for example has been able to maintain a cop on every street corner for a long time (which has done wonders).
South Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia – Cherry Hill, Haddonfield, Moorestown etc.
We drove and explored through Cherry hill and neighboring suburbs – Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees etc.
Driving through Cherry Hill for the first time was very confusing. It had no begging or end, no logic to its form. As I understand now it simply doesn't. It just expanded everywhere it could. I wasn't very fond of the idea but there are nice areas.
I was especially impressed with the JCC (Katz JCC) which seems like a great place to raise a kid and join a community. This center may well take an important part in our decision regarding the area we'd like to live in even though it may require quite a commute to north Philly.
Voorhees feels like an extension of Cherry Hill. It houses very large properties on a lot of land.
Haddonfield and Moorestown are a different story. They both have lovely downtowns which add a lot of character to the town. They are both more tightly packed than the rest of the area but I think the general feeling of the town makes up for it.
Main Line The famed main line suburb of Philadelphia is deserving of its reputation (Although we didn't get the opportunity to experience the traffic on route 30).
In general being close to the city and the commercial area near city avenue and Route 30 enables greater accessibility than South Jersey offers (although huge shopping centers are available in SJ as well).
Bala Cynwyd gradually transforms from a more urban setting, close to the city (with all its influences), to a beautiful suburb.
Ardmore and Haverford both house amazing properties along with apartments along route 30. It seems that every mainline town we visited can be characterized by more commercial/urban properties near route 30 and huge mansions north of route 30.
We visited the Kaizerman JCC in Wynnewood and found it lovely as well, even though it much less developed than the Katz JCC in Cherry Hill.
Abington – Jenkintown – Elkins Park
On the recommendation of members of the forum we included this area, which dramatically improves our commute, into our search. The area is beautiful as well and reminded me of the Main Line area. The Jewish community if developed, although there isn't a developed JCC like in the other areas I've covered.
I got the feeling this area is relatively older, both as far as the population goes and the general feel. It was quite hard to find rental properties around there.
Just my thoughts. I'd appreciate your thoughts/ comments as always.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dorianwales
My family and I are scheduled for relocation at the end of the year. This forum has been a great help in the process. We had recently spent a week in the area and I'd like to share my thoughts with the forums and others which probably ask themselves the same questions.
We will be working in the Cheltenham area and center city and we have an infant son. It was important for us to find quality of living, excellent day care (Jewish orientation being a big plus), and some form of local "downtown". We visited Philadelphia, its suburbs to the north and west and South Jersey. Here is my take.
I've submitted this thread both to the Philadelphia and South Jersey forums as it is relevant to both.
Philadelphia
Philadelphia itself is a relatively rough city. It's beautiful but rugged and I believe it has a lot of unused potential. The city, and the area as a whole is characterized (from a week's perspective) by sharp shifts from beautiful areas to some of the worst I've seen. Both in the city and in the suburbs. As far as the city goes I couldn't help but feel the city doesn't do enough to improve. I couldn't understand how some of the best universities in the US cannot transform the areas around them. Very frustrating I imagine. The police doesn't do a lot either, as far as the feeling of personal security when walking down the streets. I imagine that has to do with budget cuts but NYC for example has been able to maintain a cop on every street corner for a long time (which has done wonders).
South Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia – Cherry Hill, Haddonfield, Moorestown etc.
We drove and explored through Cherry hill and neighboring suburbs – Haddonfield, Moorestown, Voorhees etc.
Driving through Cherry Hill for the first time was very confusing. It had no begging or end, no logic to its form. As I understand now it simply doesn't. It just expanded everywhere it could. I wasn't very fond of the idea but there are nice areas.
I was especially impressed with the JCC (Katz JCC) which seems like a great place to raise a kid and join a community. This center may well take an important part in our decision regarding the area we'd like to live in even though it may require quite a commute to north Philly.
Voorhees feels like an extension of Cherry Hill. It houses very large properties on a lot of land.
Haddonfield and Moorestown are a different story. They both have lovely downtowns which add a lot of character to the town. They are both more tightly packed than the rest of the area but I think the general feeling of the town makes up for it.
Main Line
The famed main line suburb of Philadelphia is deserving of its reputation (Although we didn't get the opportunity to experience the traffic on route 30).
In general being close to the city and the commercial area near city avenue and Route 30 enables greater accessibility than South Jersey offers (although huge shopping centers are available in SJ as well).
Bala Cynwyd gradually transforms from a more urban setting, close to the city (with all its influences), to a beautiful suburb.
Ardmore and Haverford both house amazing properties along with apartments along route 30. It seems that every mainline town we visited can be characterized by more commercial/urban properties near route 30 and huge mansions north of route 30.
We visited the Kaizerman JCC in Wynnewood and found it lovely as well, even though it much less developed than the Katz JCC in Cherry Hill.
Abington – Jenkintown – Elkins Park
On the recommendation of members of the forum we included this area, which dramatically improves our commute, into our search. The area is beautiful as well and reminded me of the Main Line area. The Jewish community if developed, although there isn't a developed JCC like in the other areas I've covered.
I got the feeling this area is relatively older, both as far as the population goes and the general feel. It was quite hard to find rental properties around there.
Just my thoughts. I'd appreciate your thoughts/ comments as always.
I lived in Cherry Hill from 1964-2008. Just to explain the disconnected nature of the town, it literally developed one farm sale at a time. Haddonfield & Moorestown were towns before the American Revolution. Cherry Hill was mostly farms until after WWII.
pretty decent interpretation of these areas. Except that we find it easier to get into the city from CH area then the main line (rt 30 area)
Well, like I always said if I was commuting to Philly or some place else close by on that side of the river but still had to live in NJ, I'd probably pick Delran/Cinnaminson area over CH/Marlton area for commuting purposes. It just seems far easier to take that short trip down Rt 130 to 73 and get the Tacony Bridge - which for the record has a cheaper toll than the others - than to drive on 70 from Marlton, for example, all the way to the Ben Franklin. If you drive south on 130 in Cinnaminson and look to your right you could see Philly's skyline right across the river. I think they actually touch don't they? Obviously aside from the river running between.
The OP should take a look at some of the towns in Burlington County, both in the Rt 130 area and Marlton area. Although if they weren't too crazy about Cherry Hill I doubt they'd like these areas much better, aside from the fact that they're much smaller. I personally like Riverton in that area, and from there you have other ways around 130 to get out to 73 and get the Tacony Bridge.
Last edited by Whoelsebutcharles; 08-29-2010 at 10:11 AM..
yup, From 130 and Cinnaminsn roads you can see center city like its a mile away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whoelsebutcharles
Well, like I always said if I was commuting to Philly or some place else close by on that side of the river but still had to live in NJ, I'd probably pick Delran/Cinnaminson area over CH/Marlton area for commuting purposes. It just seems far easier to take that short trip down Rt 130 to 73 and get the Tacony Bridge - which for the record has a cheaper toll than the others - than to drive on 70 from Marlton, for example, all the way to the Ben Franklin. If you drive south on 130 in Cinnaminson and look to your right you could see Philly's skyline right across the river. I think they actually touch don't they? Obviously aside from the river running between.
The OP should take a look at some of the towns in Burlington County, both in the Rt 130 area and Marlton area. Although if they weren't too crazy about Cherry Hill I doubt they'd like these areas much better, aside from the fact that they're much smaller. I personally like Riverton in that area, and from there you have other ways around 130 to get out to 73 and get the Tacony Bridge.
dorian - I think your overall impression is very good. The one thing I would critique is the assumption that a commute from the Mainline is easier than from the Jersey Burbs. It's actually the opposite. Despite the proximity of the Mainline to Philly, getting to Center City takes significantly more time than it does from the Jersey side.
As for your remarks on South Jersey towns like Cherry Hill and Voorhees, you are very correct that they developed not as a unified plan, but grew one section at a time as land was sold to developers. I can't speak for the Philly area, but I know that the JCC is very important to your family and I also know from business and personal contacts that Cherry Hill and Voorhees are the premier Jewish communities in the area. Other's exist on the PA side, but not in the concentration that they do here and with the same exuberance of investing into the community.
I think given all the factors you will find that living in South Jersey will at the very least give you an equal commute to the other areas, more bang for your buck on housing while still having fantastic schools and the all important JCC community that you are looking to become a part of.
As for Philadelphia, it's actually improved a LOT over the past 10 years or so. The gentrification process has been stalled do to the economy, but many neighborhoods that were "sketchy" have made dramatic turn arounds. I still wouldn't aimlessly wander around without knowing where I was going, but the proven areas of Philadelphia are very safe. Just don't expect a NYC level of activity. For instance, I've left business dinners at close to midnight in Center City and in some areas been one of only a couple people on the street. It's eerie to be in the middle of one of the largest cities in the U.S. and be on an empty street.
I've never been that crazy about downtown Philly. I had dinner there a few months ago (near the mall and Chinatown) and the streets were dirty and dark; not conducive to walking at all.
I know they've been building up alot lately but surprised that they haven't progressed more rapidly.
Quote:
Driving through Cherry Hill for the first time was very confusing. It had no begging or end, no logic to its form. As I understand now it simply doesn't. It just expanded everywhere it could.
The mall was named Cherry Hill and the town was built around the mall (not the other way around where a town/city exists first and then a mall is built). It was the first indoor mall in the U.S.
No it has not. The hoodrats just move to another neighborhood that they will eventually destroy. They move from one public housing complex to the next. The areas of the NE and South Philly where they are now moving are going downhill. If it was not for public housing we would not need gentrification in the first place. Do you ever hear of gentrification in the burbs?
Actually you do hear of "gentrification" in the burbs, but they don't necessarily use that term. Generally suburban gentrification isn't that people are moving into "bad" areas as much as they are moving into more blue collar areas and buying up housing changing the demographics of the town. Collingswood is a good example of suburban gentrification.
As for Philly, I think it has come a long way. Certainly there are large areas that are still sketchy, but pin wheeling out from Center City, those neighborhoods have been seeing some major changes. The Baltimore Avenue corridor out to around 50th Street in University City, Powelton Village, Northern Liberties as well as sections throughout South Philly like Grad Hospital and Point Breeze.
I know what your getting at with the public housing, the one area along Christian Street just south of Queen's Village was an up and coming area that has had a lot of issues with the public housing there, but overall the city has been slowly improving for over a decade.
The Cinnaminson/Riverton area doesn't have the Jewish community the OP is looking for.
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Except that we find it easier to get into the city from CH area then the main line (rt 30 area)
