Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey > New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia
 [Register]
New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia Burlington County, Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County in South Jersey
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-21-2010, 03:18 AM
 
93 posts, read 236,141 times
Reputation: 32

Advertisements

I wonder what the top rated city employer is today?Not including city hall,hall of justice,etc,maybe the aquarium,riversharks complex?,if so,they can never compare to business's that once thrived in the city like RCA,GE,Campbell Soup,only to name a few.When they built up the "waterfront" in the 80's,it was made to make the city more attractive,but they forgot about housing,streets & the people there.When the big companies were still there,most of the employees lived in the city.but they were making great money,then they all moved to the subs because of the crime there,schools also,they did the right thing.They wanted their kids to go to good schools,better neighborhoods,nice houses.I really don't think this city will ever thrive like it once did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-21-2010, 07:41 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,682,136 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by stressedCollegeGirl89 View Post
I see what you're saying about the effects of education; you right that does happen. But if Camden went through a "renovation" process...the "city flight" would be less extreme. You've also found the second piece to the puzzle, bring business back in to Camden and dealing with the drug/gang problem. However, if Camden schools were able to give the kids decent education and the city could provide after school programs that would benefit the kids by keeping them off the streets and out of trouble (this was something I was trying to elude to in my previous posts)...heck that would be wonderful! Both go hand in hand and are simultaneous in occurence...although the availibility of jobs and bringing back business will have to get this whole thing in motion.

New Brunswick had a similar problem in the 70's (not nearly anywhere as bad though) and the fact that Johnson & Johnson essentially helped fixed its downtown area and attracted business did wonders for the city!

Camden has that potential too, seeing its close proximity to Philly...give it several decades (if our plans work out) and then people will be buying up Camden property like crazy. All they need is a good plan and willing businesses, as well as non-corrupt local politicians to get the ball rolling!
I was trying to get to the point that you can't hang your hat on education. As much as the illetarati would like us to believe that it all begins and ends with education, that is simply not the case. It begins and ends with productive work. Camden is the perfect example of that. The state and county have poured billions upon billions of dollars into the Camden schools. We spend more per pupil educating children in Camden than we do in Cherry Hill, Moorestown or Haddonfield. They have the latest technology, the "best" administrators and teachers we can find, 2 free hot meals a day and more before and after school care programs than you can shake a stick at. Yet the problem still persists.

It all comes back to jobs that do not require an education but still pay a living wage. Factory jobs, assemby line jobs, those are what is needed. You can attempt to educate a child all you want, but if the home environment is not solid with positive role models, they will most likely never succeed. The stark reality is that these jobs don't exist anymore and the only jobs available to most people with nothing more than a high school education are minimum wage...and minimun wage won't put food on the table and a roof over your head without relying on government assistance.

If you want to fix Camden you need to encourage industrial development. Bring in factory jobs that require labor. Jobs that will pay $15 an hour to stand on an assembly line. Jobs that will provide people with their own medical insurance. Jobs that will let parents feel proud that THEY, NOT THE STATE, are putting food on the table, a roof over their kids head and clothes on their backs. Jobs that let kids feel proud that their parents are working hard to support them.

You mentioned white flight, without mentioning the causes of it. WW2 brought about one of the greatest migrations in history. The demand followed like this:
  • White men who worked in factories were drafted into the Army
  • White women who had stayed at home or worked in the service industry went to work in the factories.
  • A few black men secured factory jobs, many others went into the service industry.
  • Most black women went into the service industry.
After the war industrial demand remained peaked for a couple decades, but through incentives for returning GI's, the majority went to college and moved into the government subsidized suburbs. The immigrant dream had been realized. The first generation worked in the factories performing manual labor, maybe the second, but this generation became educated and wealthy beyond anyones dreams.

However, the story was different for blacks. Since most were not GI's they didn't have access to the same programs. They flooded the northern cities to take industrial jobs that were being vacated by whites. However, these jobs soon disappeared to be shipped over seas or back down south. This left the service industry as the only employment source for many. An industry that generally pays substandard wages. The mechanism through which generations had achieved the "American Dream" was gone. It was replaced by government hand outs that almost incentified the dissolution of families.

So, if you want to fix Camden, open a factory and give people real jobs. In fact, go so far as to return to the concept of the "worker village". This is how Fairview (aka Yorkship Village) was founded. Open the factory and build housing. Move the workers into a neighborhood near the factory so that it is an insular secure space. Provide private security, bring in a real supermarket, build a comprehensive school and let people build a real life. Do that one neighborhood at a time and watch the city transform.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2010, 08:51 AM
 
93 posts, read 236,141 times
Reputation: 32
Factories?that would be great,haven't been here since the 70's & 80's,what would be the chance ever getting them back here?,not very good,just won't happen.As long as the city is run by the present politicians,it will only get worse before it gets better.In this economy today,business's that are starting up or bldg a new bldg would never think about relocating to Camden,they see that it's the 2nd most dangerous city in the USA,why should they?The media today doesn't help the situation either.When Camden was growing in the 80's,education a High School Diploma,now it's almost a must tohave some kind of degree,college,tech schooling whatever to get a good paying job.I'm happy that my kids will have a degree or some college education.My son is very smart,has 2 jobs,going to be an R.N. one day,my daughter is 16 & wants to follow in his footsteps.I wish Camden would have woken up 10 or 20yrs ago to fix this problem that will take more & more years to fix,the longer they wait the worse it will get.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-21-2010, 10:37 AM
 
14,780 posts, read 43,682,136 times
Reputation: 14622
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihatenj View Post
Factories?that would be great,haven't been here since the 70's & 80's,what would be the chance ever getting them back here?,not very good,just won't happen.As long as the city is run by the present politicians,it will only get worse before it gets better.In this economy today,business's that are starting up or bldg a new bldg would never think about relocating to Camden,they see that it's the 2nd most dangerous city in the USA,why should they?The media today doesn't help the situation either.When Camden was growing in the 80's,education a High School Diploma,now it's almost a must tohave some kind of degree,college,tech schooling whatever to get a good paying job.I'm happy that my kids will have a degree or some college education.My son is very smart,has 2 jobs,going to be an R.N. one day,my daughter is 16 & wants to follow in his footsteps.I wish Camden would have woken up 10 or 20yrs ago to fix this problem that will take more & more years to fix,the longer they wait the worse it will get.
It would take a serious amount of public/private partnership to realize. Ironically enough, the money is there in the form of billions of dollars the state pours into Camden. However, all of that "aid" has done nothing but create an entire city that is nothing more than a welfare case. All the leadership wants to do is get their piece of the handout and keep the money flowing.

That is why the revival needs to be through private industry incentified by the government. Make it cheap for the business to operate their, but force them to invest in the community. Use the money we are pouring into failing schools and corrupt administrations and entice business to the city.

You have to take away the hand out before people will start looking for a hand up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey > New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:12 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top