Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey > New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia
 [Register]
New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia Burlington County, Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County in South Jersey
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-04-2012, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Collingswood
283 posts, read 604,590 times
Reputation: 138

Advertisements

Rowan is a State University and has been since 1998. There is already division with the existing setup. Rutgers-Camden is ALREADY the forgotten step child of Rutgers. Go to the New Brunswick campus and then go to the Camden campus and tell me where all of the funding is going.

This was a plan to get South Jersey access to Federal research funding and people scream about it. The same plan focused on bringing progress to two depressed areas that would eventually be linked by train in South Jersey. People scream about it. Students at both universities would have had access to more. People scream about it.

The merger would have helped to create a more comprehensive Southern NJ offering. But people would rather get caught up in names, traditions, and stick their heads in the sand. For such a notoriously liberal state, it amazes me how many New Jerseyans accept that all change is bad and therefore doing nothing new is always the better option.

I still have yet to understand how South Jersey gets "screwed" by this. Were there plans to close up the Rutgers-Camden shop in Camden? You're bringing up my exact argument. People only bring up feelings on this subject that mostly boil down to Rutgers is awesome and Rowan sucks. I've yet to see substantial discourse on the benefits or disadvantages of a merger with respect to program offerings, attracting businesses to hire grads, the benefits to Camden and Glassboro, etc.. It's all, "this sucks and let's do nothing instead!"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-04-2012, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Collingswood
283 posts, read 604,590 times
Reputation: 138
Soug, there are issues with any merger and acquisition in the real world. I work for a bank that was bought out by another bank. Let me assure you, there were lots of issues to work through! In M&A, there are benefits and costs. To me, it still seems like the benefits outweighed the costs here. The law school issuing a report about their own accreditation issues (no conflict of interest there!), library resources, and taxes are all roadblocks/noise. Those issues would be worked through as part of the merger.

Regarding Camden rot, I don't think so. I think that Glassboro would have been the undergrad program headquarters and Camden would be the graduate program headquarters. It would help persuade business to open in Camden. Even if that took time, the Camden campus could still feed off of the employment centers in Cherry Hill, etc.

Again, I feel like everyone is being very short sighted about this and just because there are problems and issues, the whole plan should be scrapped.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-04-2012, 06:44 PM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,809 posts, read 34,419,348 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_567 View Post
Soug, there are issues with any merger and acquisition in the real world. I work for a bank that was bought out by another bank. Let me assure you, there were lots of issues to work through! In M&A, there are benefits and costs. To me, it still seems like the benefits outweighed the costs here. The law school issuing a report about their own accreditation issues (no conflict of interest there!), library resources, and taxes are all roadblocks/noise. Those issues would be worked through as part of the merger.

Regarding Camden rot, I don't think so. I think that Glassboro would have been the undergrad program headquarters and Camden would be the graduate program headquarters. It would help persuade business to open in Camden. Even if that took time, the Camden campus could still feed off of the employment centers in Cherry Hill, etc.

Again, I feel like everyone is being very short sighted about this and just because there are problems and issues, the whole plan should be scrapped.
There are multiple threads on here that work into this topic. Have you done a search for them? Most of the answers to your questions & confusion are already in threads.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-05-2012, 07:22 PM
 
1,953 posts, read 3,857,406 times
Reputation: 1101
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_567 View Post
Soug, there are issues with any merger and acquisition in the real world. I work for a bank that was bought out by another bank. Let me assure you, there were lots of issues to work through! In M&A, there are benefits and costs. To me, it still seems like the benefits outweighed the costs here. The law school issuing a report about their own accreditation issues (no conflict of interest there!), library resources, and taxes are all roadblocks/noise. Those issues would be worked through as part of the merger.

Regarding Camden rot, I don't think so. I think that Glassboro would have been the undergrad program headquarters and Camden would be the graduate program headquarters. It would help persuade business to open in Camden. Even if that took time, the Camden campus could still feed off of the employment centers in Cherry Hill, etc.

Again, I feel like everyone is being very short sighted about this and just because there are problems and issues, the whole plan should be scrapped.
Everyone knows that Camden doesn't get enough funding and support. The solution to this isn't to just take it out of Rutgers altogether. It's to create a better and more effective funding system that gives the Camden campus more than it gets now. One solution they are talking about is to give Camden and Newark their own Board of Governors to deal with certain campus-specific issues. And sure, I see what you are saying about some of the things I listed being merger issues. The problem is that none of the issues have been studied. At all. And yet, they want to mandate this by July 1. It makes no sense and it stinks of political back-room dealing.

In your previous post, you said "Students at both universities would have had access to more." Yet, only a few lines later, you said "I've yet to see substantial discourse on the benefits or disadvantages of a merger." So I'm getting mixed messages here. What exactly would kids have more access to? And I sure as hell hope that in your plan where Camden is graduate headquarters, there would still be a lot of undergrads there. Undergrads fuel campus life and campus spirit, not grad students that live off-campus and have families and kids. Without any undergrads, the Camden campus will truly be a waste.

But why do South Jersey residents get screwed? Not because Rowan is a "bad" school. In fact, it's a pretty good school, especially in engineering. But it isn't Rutgers which is a big name research institution that is part of the very prestigious Association of American Universities. AAU schools are much more likely to attract grant funding, especially from the federal government, than a school like Rowan can.

A lot of the things they are trying to accomplish can still be done without going through with a full merger. Rutgers-Camden has said they are very interested in joining into a consortium with Rowan. This is exactly what University of Maryland, College Park and UM, Baltimore are doing if you read the link I posted above (and they realized this was the better option after months of research, mind you).

Like I said before, if by 2025 RU-Camden has 20000 students of whom many more are living on-campus, has significantly ramped up its research funding, and has worked to attract a significant business presence in Camden, I will support it becoming an independent university, or a part of Rowan if they get their game up as well. But until I see some cold hard facts saying that it would benefit from being part of Rowan, I am sticking with the status quo, even if that means it is underfunded by the Rutgers system. Why? Because for all we know, things could get much worse than they are now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2012, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Collingswood
283 posts, read 604,590 times
Reputation: 138
But things could also get better! I guess we'll never know!

I get thoroughly working through the details to execute the merger, but why does everything need to be solved before a merger can even be agreed to? Just get it done! Our $8.8 billion bank operating in 13 states merged in 2 years! 2 years of hell, but 2 years! But two colleges 15 miles apart from each other can't work together to resolve their differences and find out the best way to move forward? Come on...

This part of the state is growing, so why shouldn't it have a more comprehensive college offering? We should just have Rutgers's afterthought and an expanded teacher's college as our two main colleges? If afterwards, SNJ residents who believe that the combined-Rowan isn't for them can still go to college elsewhere (even Rutgers-NB or Newark!).

The political capital to get this done is here and now. You make that sound like a bad thing. You have Sweeney as Senate president now. What if the next 20 Senate presidents are from North Jersey? The desire to spend money on South Jersey higher ed may not be on the legislative table ever again.

Regarding students having access to more, I was referring to access to programs offered at each legacy school. I'd assume they'd pick the "best-of-the-best" to create the new, more comprehensive offering. For example, why not take Rowan's engineering and education program and extend the offering to Camden and take Rutgers's Business and Law programs and extend undergraduate offerings to Glassboro?

When our banks merged, we did exactly that with systems, products, etc. You make the best business decision with the assets that you have. In fact, we grew employees, grew product offerings, and made more money. The place I worked for would have gone under if we didn't merge. Mergers can be very good. It doesn't necessarily mean wholesale layoffs.

Camden doesn't need more of everyone else's money through boards, associations of people-who-think-they-are-smarter-than-us, or do-nothing committees to keep themselves continually employed under the guise of making a difference. It needs a tax base to prosper, plain and simple.

Oh well. A lost opportunity!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-11-2012, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia,New Jersey, NYC!
6,963 posts, read 20,454,507 times
Reputation: 2737
i transferred from uconn to rutgers - camden and now its going to be rowan because of gov. fata$$

and at least i didn't attend rutgers law school. talk about having to explain going to a "phantom" law school

what a f.vckin fat idiot
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2012, 08:05 PM
 
1,953 posts, read 3,857,406 times
Reputation: 1101
Just wanted to update everyone on the latest news. A lot has happened in the last three days:

1.) Sweeney and Donald Norcross put out a plan that does a lot of things:
-Rutgers takes over all of UMDNJ except University Hospital in Newark
-Rutgers-Newark gets its own Board of Governors, while the New Brunswick Board of Governors increases from 11 to 15 people
-Rutgers-Camden keeps its name and autonomy, but becomes separated from the rest of RU. It is funded independently by the Legislature, has its own Board of Trustees, and shares a Board of Governors with Rowan.

So basically, the good of this plan is that UMDNJ no longer exists. The bad is that RU-Camden is Rutgers only in name, and it is essentially still a Rut-Row merger, just in different words.

Then, today, the RU Board of Governors and Board of Trustees held a meeting, declared that they wouldn't cede control of either Camden or Newark, but said they were open to further negotiations. A lot to think about here.

Rutgers governing boards approve plan to continue negotiations for UMDNJ merger | NJ.com
http://www.njsendems.com/Docs/Higher...ll%20draft.pdf

Last edited by soug; 06-06-2012 at 08:31 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2012, 09:05 PM
 
Location: pennsauken
402 posts, read 748,574 times
Reputation: 192
I think it might end being a good thing. Maybe it will cause some investment to come to Camden, also it might speed up the glassboro to Camden light rail line.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2012, 12:05 AM
 
2,203 posts, read 3,874,122 times
Reputation: 2030
Quote:
Originally Posted by soug View Post
Just wanted to update everyone on the latest news. A lot has happened in the last three days:

1.) Sweeney and Donald Norcross put out a plan that does a lot of things:

-Rutgers-Camden keeps its name and autonomy, but becomes separated from the rest of RU. It is funded independently by the Legislature, has its own Board of Trustees, and shares a Board of Governors with Rowan.

So basically, the good of this plan is that UMDNJ no longer exists. The bad is that RU-Camden is Rutgers only in name, and it is essentially still a Rut-Row merger, just in different words.
RU-Camden would lose its key asset - its AAU status. If the politicians weren't so corrupt and motivated by special interests, they could've created a medical research campus by merging Cooper Medical and RU-Camden. A new facility could very well compete against or work in partnership with Thomas Jefferson and Drexel in obtaining federal and private sector funding for medical research. In time, a new facility would also generate economic development and bring about the gentrification in Camden.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2012, 11:04 AM
 
584 posts, read 1,418,698 times
Reputation: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJ2MDdude View Post
RU-Camden would lose its key asset - its AAU status. If the politicians weren't so corrupt and motivated by special interests, they could've created a medical research campus by merging Cooper Medical and RU-Camden. A new facility could very well compete against or work in partnership with Thomas Jefferson and Drexel in obtaining federal and private sector funding for medical research. In time, a new facility would also generate economic development and bring about the gentrification in Camden.
Great points! An independent RU-Camden isn't a win. RU-Camden should strengthen, not weaken their ties within the Rutgers system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > New Jersey > New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top