Could SJ support another Whole Foods or Wegmans? (Springfield, Cherry Hill Mall: bankrupt, closing)

[wardwhirlboromarlpool1955]

OK, perhaps there was an earlier Jo-Ann somewhere in the center, maybe where Dollar Tree is now. And by the way... what is a SoFro? I've never heard of such a thing. But I still think what you heard about Acme was a tall tale. Because first of all, the current Acme in Westmont was already renovated sometime in the past decade, and a drugstore-sized empty space is already next to it, allowing for a decent expansion. While the Super Fresh/Jo-Ann center has more parking, I highly doubt Acme would spend money to move there, at least at this point in time. If they had the opportunity to move to a shopping center anchored by a Walmart, Kmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowe's, or one of the big liquor stores, they might go out of their way to do that, but the Westmont center is small and has no large anchors other than the grocery space.

I also must challenge these Acme plans you heard about because (and it's understandable if you didn't know) Jo-Ann has been moving/relocating their stores all over the country for a period of years now. Once upon a time, Jo-Ann was considered a dingy tenant of second-rate urban or rural shopping centers, but has been trying to change that image. Since 2005, Jo-Ann stores in all of the following towns have moved:

1. Springfield, PA

2. Exton, PA (the new store is in Downingtown)

3. Harrisburg, PA

4. Maple Shade, NJ (as I mentioned above)

5. Claymont, DE (it was "replaced" by a new store in Glen Mills, PA!)

6. The Woodlands, TX (near Houston)

But Jo-Ann ended up downsizing the new Springfield store (they moved to a BASEMENT level) when Walmart expressed an interest in the space above theirs. It wasn't a problem though because there had been some sort of artsy store owned by a separate company, but attached to the Jo-Ann, only accessible through the Jo-Ann, that closed not long after opening. When Walmart came in and ate up parts of the new Jo-Ann space, Jo-Ann was able to fill in the empty space which was hard to lease, making up for what Walmart took. So if Jo-Ann was willing to accommodate Walmart, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for Acme, but I hear Walmart is kind of a bully to other companies who they want space from.

Anyway, as a side note, a "House of Fabrics" store is visible in the 1973 movie "American Graffiti" (set in 1962, with a late 50's/early 60's theme). House of Fabrics was bought by Jo-Ann sometime in the 80's, as was Cloth World.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by wardwhirlboromarlpool1955

OK, perhaps there was an earlier Jo-Ann somewhere in the center, maybe where Dollar Tree is now. And by the way... what is a SoFro? I've never heard of such a thing. But I still think what you heard about Acme was a tall tale. Because first of all, the current Acme in Westmont was already renovated sometime in the past decade, and a drugstore-sized empty space is already next to it, allowing for a decent expansion. While the Super Fresh/Jo-Ann center has more parking, I highly doubt Acme would spend money to move there, at least at this point in time. If they had the opportunity to move to a shopping center anchored by a Walmart, Kmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowe's, or one of the big liquor stores, they might go out of their way to do that, but the Westmont center is small and has no large anchors other than the grocery space.

I also must challenge these Acme plans you heard about because (and it's understandable if you didn't know) Jo-Ann has been moving/relocating their stores all over the country for a period of years now. Once upon a time, Jo-Ann was considered a dingy tenant of second-rate urban or rural shopping centers, but has been trying to change that image. Since 2005, Jo-Ann stores in all of the following towns have moved:

1. Springfield, PA

2. Exton, PA (the new store is in Downingtown)

3. Harrisburg, PA

4. Maple Shade, NJ (as I mentioned above)

5. Claymont, DE (it was "replaced" by a new store in Glen Mills, PA!)

6. The Woodlands, TX (near Houston)

But Jo-Ann ended up downsizing the new Springfield store (they moved to a BASEMENT level) when Walmart expressed an interest in the space above theirs. It wasn't a problem though because there had been some sort of artsy store owned by a separate company, but attached to the Jo-Ann, only accessible through the Jo-Ann, that closed not long after opening. When Walmart came in and ate up parts of the new Jo-Ann space, Jo-Ann was able to fill in the empty space which was hard to lease, making up for what Walmart took. So if Jo-Ann was willing to accommodate Walmart, I don't see why they wouldn't do the same for Acme, but I hear Walmart is kind of a bully to other companies who they want space from.

Anyway, as a side note, a "House of Fabrics" store is visible in the 1973 movie "American Graffiti" (set in 1962, with a late 50's/early 60's theme). House of Fabrics was bought by Jo-Ann sometime in the 80's, as was Cloth World.

So fro was a fabric store that was big on selling sewing machines, usually, Singer. JoAnn 's Fabrics bought all of the SoFo stores in the area at the time that Super G came into the area. This is getting off topic for this thread & I will not continue on it. I made a post of what my friend was told & posted it as just that. Something that my friend was told. You can believe it or not. I really don't care. Only time will tell if it comes to be.

.

[avg12]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

The other Acme will relocate. No net gain. It does fill holes in that shopping center. My friend says that the "new" Acme will be larger, so, hopefully, it will mean jobs gained.

If it turns out true, Acme maybe intending to hold the lease on it's existing store but closing it, while trying to open a new store in the Superfresh site to prevent competition in Westmont. Seems somewhat shady and I don't know if that is permitted.

Anyways, ShopRite should be competing. Perhaps, Ravitz should strike a deal with Zallies:

-Sell 70/Cornell Ave., CH store to Zallies.
-Let Zallies claim Camden County and be able to open any store in Camden Co. including west Cherry Hill 08002, with the exception of of the east/central side Cherry Hill (08003, 08034) and Voorhees. This way Zallies can open up in Westmont to compete against Acme.

-In exchange, buy the Medford store from Zallies.
-Re-open Brace Rd.

This would give Ravitz:
Evesham Rd and Brace Rd., CH
70, Marlton
70, Medford
Union Mill and East Gate Sq., Mt. Laurel

The East Gate Sq. store is going to face tough competition from the Super Wal-Mart. Ravitz could sell the East Gate site to Eickhoff, that operates a store on Ark Rd. in Mt.Laurel. Eickhoff might be more capable of running the store with tougher competition around. Also, if Acme intends to shed stores, Eickhoff could make a deal with Acme to then buy up Lenola Rd/Moorestown and Mt Holly Rd/Burlington Twp. If a new ShopRite co-op owner could be permitted, more options might exist.

It'd be great if the Haddonfield Acme could convert to a Trader Joes, somehow, but Acme can't sell off the store easily with the union issues, but it could close with an opening of a ShopRite nearby, and employees could shift to ShopRite.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by avg12

If it turns out true, Acme maybe intending to hold the lease on it's existing store but closing it, while trying to open a new store in the Superfresh site to prevent competition in Westmont. Seems somewhat shady and I don't know if that is permitted.

Anyways, ShopRite should be competing. Perhaps, Ravitz should strike a deal with Zallies:

-Sell 70/Cornell Ave., CH store to Zallies.
-Let Zallies claim Camden County and be able to open any store in Camden Co. including west Cherry Hill 08002, with the exception of of the east/central side Cherry Hill (08003, 08034) and Voorhees. This way Zallies can open up in Westmont to compete against Acme.

-In exchange, buy the Medford store from Zallies.
-Re-open Brace Rd.

This would give Ravitz:
Evesham Rd and Brace Rd., CH
70, Marlton
70, Medford
Union Mill and East Gate Sq., Mt. Laurel

The East Gate Sq. store is going to face tough competition from the Super Wal-Mart. Ravitz could sell the East Gate site to Eickhoff, that operates a store on Ark Rd. in Mt.Laurel. Eickhoff might be more capable of running the store with tougher competition around. Also, if Acme intends to shed stores, Eickhoff could make a deal with Acme to then buy up Lenola Rd/Moorestown and Mt Holly Rd/Burlington Twp. If a new ShopRite co-op owner could be permitted, more options might exist.

It'd be great if the Haddonfield Acme could convert to a Trader Joes, somehow, but Acme can't sell off the store easily with the union issues, but it could close with an opening of a ShopRite nearby, and employees could shift to ShopRite.

I think that the Haddonfield Acme will continue as such unless Acme folds up. It can not be expanded & is used by the elderly who no longer drive. If you go in there in the morning or early afternoon, they are there. I'm not sure how Trader Joe's would do there, given who a large part of the clientele is. In another 10 years, it would do really well, as baby-boomers age & the elderly of today die off.

[wardwhirlboromarlpool1955]

I don't get how the Acme in Maple Shade (NOT the Lenola one) stays open. That store is ANCIENT and very small, especially small considering how Wegmans has a store not terribly far away in Cherry Hill. The store always seems dirty but maybe that's because of old ceiling tiles, fixtures, etc that really need to be replaced. Parking is a chore at that store too, but I'm glad it has its own lot (kind of hidden around back though) considering that many stores in a location like that would only have metered parking on the street. Perhaps the liquor store close by, although small and dingy, is a draw that keeps the Acme there open. The Clayton Acme is also very small and old, and I don't get why it didn't close but the Glassboro Acme recently did.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by wardwhirlboromarlpool1955

I don't get how the Acme in Maple Shade (NOT the Lenola one) stays open. That store is ANCIENT and very small, especially small considering how Wegmans has a store not terribly far away in Cherry Hill. The store always seems dirty but maybe that's because of old ceiling tiles, fixtures, etc that really need to be replaced. Parking is a chore at that store too, but I'm glad it has its own lot (kind of hidden around back though) considering that many stores in a location like that would only have metered parking on the street. Perhaps the liquor store close by, although small and dingy, is a draw that keeps the Acme there open. The Clayton Acme is also very small and old, and I don't get why it didn't close but the Glassboro Acme recently did.

The Acme at the Collegetown shopping center was ancient & badly in need of repairs. a brand new ShopRite opened right across Delsea Drive. It was closed rather than remodel it. The Acme in Claytondoesn't have competition across the street draining customers.

I worked with someone from Maple Shade who mentioned that there were a lot of retired people there. That is probably the customer basefor the Maple Shade Acme.

[CH101]

Could Trader Joe's be the next supermarket chain to enter Cherry Hill? Interesting comment by the town's spokesperson regarding the new liquor license ordinance:

"Lifting that sight restriction paves the way for large size stores, whether that's a supermarket or a Target or Walmart or Trader Joe's, provided that they meet certain criteria," Bridget Palmer of Cherry Hill Township told Action News. - See more at: Town readies for single liquor license auction | 6abc.com

Of course I am probably just reading too much into her statement, and she is just providing examples. But still interesting choice of examples and I hadn't even thought of Walmart or Target in the running for the liquor license. Target already expanded their store a few years ago and now offers some groceries, and it looks like Walmart may be planning an expansion into a supercenter per the website of owner of the center.

[avg12]

I don't think Target expanded the CH store. Instead, they took away one of the entrances, the specialty of it being a "Greatland Target". But, it's now like all others with Pizza Hut express/Starbucks. Before it was Pizza Hut express/TacoBell.

Anyways, Wal-Mart, Target and/or Trader Joes would only be permitted two liquor licenses per the entire state of NJ by NJ law

Target could have bought the Marlton liquor license for it's Marlton store, from the Marlton Genuardi's, using one of an available two.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by avg12

I don't think Target expanded the CH store. Instead, they took away one of the entrances, the specialty of it being a "Greatland Target". But, it's now like all others with Pizza Hut express/Starbucks. Before it was Pizza Hut express/TacoBell.

Anyways, Wal-Mart, Target and/or Trader Joes would only be permitted two liquor licenses per the entire state of NJ by NJ law

Target could have bought the Marlton liquor license for it's Marlton store, from the Marlton Genuardi's, using one of an available two.

They did expand the store.

[avg12]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

They did expand the store.

When? Can you provide a link? It was a large store from it's development, initially a Greatland branded store, with two entrances. It looks re-modeled and made more typical across the Philly area stores with the food section, but not bigger. And if it did expand, wouldn't they have added a full grocery store, like a SuperTarget (very common in Florida)? Otherwise what would be the ROI of doing an expansion there?

Be glad though. Atleast PREIT didn't give up on CH Mall when Federated/Macy's didn't want to put up Bloomingdales. PREIT stayed focused and got Nordstrom which kept the mall strong and likely CH west in general, than luring in discount oriented chains like Target (like Springfield Mall and Christiana Mall that got Target stores), or Burlington.

I wonder if JCPenney implodes, if Burlington would take the JCPenney space in CH Mall like what happened in the Gallery, or Target moves into the spot with a 2-level format but maybe even larger with a full food grocery store.