Could SJ support another Whole Foods or Wegmans? (Camden, Union: homes, construction)

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by avg12

While I agree there are urban Pathmarks not too far, the Cherry Hill location is more in suburban SJ, and it could have done well as a joint approach with the Westmont store, since Cherry Hill-Collingswood area residents live in vicinity to both. However, A&P is so mismanaged, it couldn't make the Westmont site as Superfresh work. Leaving Westmont and Marlton makes me think that A&P has no strategy left for being in Southern NJ excluding the Shore region, and will just not renew any leases and leave people jobless and communities without stores.

Regarding Philly, Giant-PA has added a few stores in NE Philly and vicinity, semi urban. Giant-PA just doesn't want to cross over the bridge.

Delaware is fortunate to keep Safeway and Giant-MD, likely because it being one hour closer to the base in MD than SJ is to that area. Also, Wegmans hasn't opened up in Delaware, and the ShopRite stores down there are a mix, although I heard one new ShopRite opened up recently there. At the time, Izzy Cohen was running Giant-MD and decided to expand into Southern NJ/SE PA from MD, gas prices were a lot cheaper!

SuperValu/Acme still has a great number of stores as Acme, and if SuperValu is in weak shape burdened with debt, it might want to consider divesting their peripheral DE/MD stores and Central/Northern NJ stores where Ahold, Safeway, or some ShopRite owner might be interested in buying the stores.

Even though both A&P and SuperValu claim to be in shape not for expansion-I think it's crazy that Acme and A&P are passing on servicing Marlton by not taking the Genuardi's building. Maybe Acme eventually leases there.

When the ax falls on A&P someone has to deal with innercity Pathmarks, primarily in Philadelphia, but also the Mt Ephraim Ave store in Camden. No other chain in the area has wanted to touch those areas with a 10 foot pole.

Give me a good reason why Acme would go into Marlton when there's an Acme on Route 70 in Medford. Even Ellisburg would have them competing with themselves at the Lenola Road Acme. Brace Road puts them in competition with the Haddonfield store. This is why I said that South Jersey needs another chain. If the management of the chain is competent, they will be a chain that deals with inner city urban shopping because of the Pathmarks. Compare Foods does urban stores. I still think that they make the most sense, but they are a small chain. Plus, when A&P goes under, they will grab sites in NYC & North Jersey first, if they aren't already in South Jersey.

Ahold has the same problem that Food Lion has. They are run out of Europe. Somehow, Aldi & Trader Joe's do not have the same problem of being tone deaf to regional differences & similarities, probably because they are non-traditional formats. Yes, all have US headquarters, but those headquarters answer to a headquarters in Europe.

Why the heck is Ahold running Giant of Landover & Giant of Carlisle as separate companies with the same name? Giant of Landover runs union stores in urban, suburban & semi-rural outlying areas. In other words, it's a good model for the Philadelphia tri-state market. Giant of Carlisle is not going to open in the Pathmark in Progress Plaza when the ax falls on A&P. Giant of Landover would. That brings us to Kroger, which has stores in Richmond. Kroger would need a distribution center as Richmond is probably served out of a distribution cener in or near Raleigh, NC.

Who have I left out? Oh, yeah, Harris Teeter, which has a store in Dover Delaware. They aren't coming. They are high-priced & can not compete with Wegmans.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by avg12

I was thinking about it again and looking at Stop&Shop's store locations, maybe the possibility exists for Ahold to bring back Stop&Shop on a limited basis, that is just for Burlington County. They could buy out the Genuardi's Barnegat and Genuardi's Marlton. The Barnegat store is within 3 miles from the Whiting Stop&Shop in So. Ocean County and the Genuardi's site is a good location. A way to keep competition low by operating both sites. The Whiting store is about 33 miles east on Route 70 from Evesham.

The Marlton Genuardi's store while away from the geographic cluster that is Ocean County and Mercer, has a good location and no Wegmans or Acme competition--just a ShopRite pass the 70/73 intersection. I'd couple it with converting the Burlington Kmart to a Stop&Shop, and it'd be a limited re-entrance into Burlington County. Of course, the likelihood is slim, but they are in stronger shape than SuperValu/Acme or A&P currently.

If you think that there's no competition from Acme in Marlton, how do you explain the Acme on Rt 70 in Medford?

No competent company is going to locate 2 stores within less than 3 miles of each other unless it's a high density urban area.

The Whole Foods at Greentree & Route 70 went in to replace an IGA. Maybe some IGAs will come in , but that does not fix the pending urban problem.

[avg12]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Give me a good reason why Acme would go into Marlton when there's an Acme on Route 70 in Medford.

Originally Posted by southbound_295

If you think that there's no competition from Acme in Marlton, how do you explain the Acme on Rt 70 in Medford?

No competent company is going to locate 2 stores within less than 3 miles of each other unless it's a high density urban area.

It's 6.2 miles not 3 miles between the Medford Acme and the soon to be closing Marlton Genuardi's, and the locations are off different highways. Kohl's has it's Voorhees store closer to it's Marlton store, than Acme would have between it's Medford store and the Genuardis.

And the Medford 70 store is quite a different market, not really pulling from Evesham, except when someone from Evesham goes to the DMV to get a driver's license renewed in that plaza. Granted, I wouldn't actually want an Acme in Marlton- I think it'd a very boring replacement, and items will be expensive, but SuperValu/Acme still has the economies of scale in the region. If I was running Acme, I'd sell a store to get that location.

While Compare Foods or another out of market chain will likely be a great welcome, I don't think the chain will have economies of scale unless they go full out, opening a lot of stores, like Bottom Dollar.

I don't think Acme would want Ellisburg, nor does it make sense, and I didn't mention that. Likely Whole Foods is the best outcome there.

I recently revisited the Westmont Superfresh which is to be closing. It's less than half a mile from the Acme on Cuthbert Blvd. While the Superfresh is a good location and in a decent plaza, I believe it's too small and on review, I take back what I said as I don't think the Cherry Hill Supermarkets/ShopRite would be interested or be able to run a ShopRite well at that size. If ShopRite wants to serve Haddonfield/Collingswood area and compete against Acme (who won't be competing against Superfresh anymore), ShopRite's best bet is reopening the Brace Rd. site, but the owners will likely wait to see what happens at Ellisburg.

[avg12]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Why the heck is Ahold running Giant of Landover & Giant of Carlisle as separate companies with the same name? Giant of Landover runs union stores in urban, suburban & semi-rural outlying areas. In other words, it's a good model for the Philadelphia tri-state market. Giant of Carlisle is not going to open in the Pathmark in Progress Plaza when the ax falls on A&P.

Ahold prefers the non union model over the union model, so it won't unionize Giant-PA to merge the divisions, nor are they able to de-unionize anything. Besides it has nothing to do with opening up urban locations. Giant-PA has opened in Philly (2550 Grant Ave., Philadelphia 19144). NE Philly-although it may not be one of the most downmarket urban grocery sites. I am familiar with the Pathmark in Aramingo Avenue in Philly, and I wouldn't be surprised to see this store close with a ShopRite, Target and Kmart relatively closeby.

When the lease for the two remaining Camden County Pathmarks come up, A&P likely won't renew. A&P could have modernized and expanded Pathmark at Church Rd, when TJMaxx left. That shopping center is so downscale that even TJMaxx left. However, A&P didn't do anything and Big Lots moved in. With the pull out of Evesham, A&P likely has no intention to remain in SJ-however, the Shore stores maybe still operable and still salable as a group. A Thriftway/ShopNBag co-op owner or Supremo type market could go in the Camden site.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

No competent company is going to locate 2 stores within less than 3 miles of each other unless it's a high density urban area.

The Main Line isn't a high-density urban area (Lower Merion/Radnor are about as dense as Cherry Hill/Voorhees overall, although there is more of a dichotomy) but you still have an Acme on City Ave in Bala-Cynwyd, one on Montgomery in Narberth, and one on Lancaster in Bryn Mawr. Of course, you can argue Acme isn't a competently run company.

Maybe South Jersey's more uniform density pattern and network of high-speed roadways could make closer-together grocery stores less feasible?

[Species 8472]

Definitely could support a Wegman's in the Cherry Hill, Marlton, Mt. Laurel area. Ever been in any of the Shoprites on Rte 73 or Springdale Road? Even during off hours, they are packed.

[CH101]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

Who have I left out? Oh, yeah, Harris Teeter, which has a store in Dover Delaware. They aren't coming.

What about Redner's Markets? They have stores in PA, DE, and MD. By the way I heard Kroger being thrown around by some employees when the Cherry Hill Genuardi's was closing. Obviously that didn't happen.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by avg12

It's 6.2 miles not 3 miles between the Medford Acme and the soon to be closing Marlton Genuardi's, and the locations are off different highways. Kohl's has it's Voorhees store closer to it's Marlton store, than Acme would have between it's Medford store and the Genuardis.

And the Medford 70 store is quite a different market, not really pulling from Evesham, except when someone from Evesham goes to the DMV to get a driver's license renewed in that plaza. Granted, I wouldn't actually want an Acme in Marlton- I think it'd a very boring replacement, and items will be expensive, but SuperValu/Acme still has the economies of scale in the region. If I was running Acme, I'd sell a store to get that location.

While Compare Foods or another out of market chain will likely be a great welcome, I don't think the chain will have economies of scale unless they go full out, opening a lot of stores, like Bottom Dollar.

I don't think Acme would want Ellisburg, nor does it make sense, and I didn't mention that. Likely Whole Foods is the best outcome there.

I recently revisited the Westmont Superfresh which is to be closing. It's less than half a mile from the Acme on Cuthbert Blvd. While the Superfresh is a good location and in a decent plaza, I believe it's too small and on review, I take back what I said as I don't think the Cherry Hill Supermarkets/ShopRite would be interested or be able to run a ShopRite well at that size. If ShopRite wants to serve Haddonfield/Collingswood area and compete against Acme (who won't be competing against Superfresh anymore), ShopRite's best bet is reopening the Brace Rd. site, but the owners will likely wait to see what happens at Ellisburg.

Bottom Dollar is rock bottom Food Lion. Food Lion moved in there with Bottom Dollar because they are in trouble in Charlotte. They will probably be closing a lot of stores in the Charlotte market & already closed several in upstate SC.

ETA: read your own post that I was quoting to see what I was referring to with the under 3 miles remark.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by CH101

What about Redner's Markets? They have stores in PA, DE, and MD. By the way I heard Kroger being thrown around by some employees when the Cherry Hill Genuardi's was closing. Obviously that didn't happen.

Kroger makes the most sense to replace supermarkets aimed at the middle class if it's a large number of stores... No chain is going to go in until the stores have been empty long enough to bring the rent down.

[avg12]

Aldi is building a new store across the Staples in Marlton. The Ravitz ShopRite must be happy that both Superfresh and Genuardi's will be gone and just Aldi, who doesnt sell brand items, is entering.

Anyone know what will happen to the liquor license held by the Marlton Genuardi's? There is already Wine Works near ShopRite. Another chain is World Market/Cost Plus- not a grocer but they sell wine and dry goods and could do well in Marlton 73, and owned by Bed Bath and Beyond. Locations in many states and nearest in Maryland.