Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have never gotten in an accident at the merge if that what you mean. BTW there are bad drivers everywhere. People will cut you off on any highway regardless of the traffic pattern. I guess you think spending 800 million dollars will make sure that no one will ever cut you off again on 295/42/55.
As for the rest of what you are saying, as a former director of PhillyCarShare, I've heard it all before. Here is where the transit fantasy falls apart in South Jersey...the regions economy and employment centers are too diversified. Relatively very few people commute into Philly for work and the growing trend has actually been people living in the city, but commuting to the suburbs for employment. The simple fact is that transit will not work for the vast majority of people in South Jersey. They can build the Glassboro line and a line out to Mount Laurel and it might, at most, impact about 5% of commuters on the roads.
The overwhelming majority of people going through the 295/42 interchange on a daily basis are not heading to transit commutable destinations like Center City, but instead are heading to destinations within South Jersey itself.
I'm all for walkability and transit, but it has to be done sensibly with our limited resources. If TOD and all the wonders that it brings struggles to take hold in towns like Collingswood, Westmont, etc. why do you think it would be such a boon in other places after we spend a billion dollars building a rail line there?
You are correct in that jobs are very spread out in South Jersey. I think you can at least agree that one of the main reasons why it's like that today is because of the lack of adequate transit in South Jersey to begin with. Having more rail lines built will increase the possibility of having new businesses in those towns as they will see it as having easy accessibility to other towns/cities thus creating more centralized employment centers. This would increase more transit riders which in turn will be less cars on the road. So improving rail service is something that is very important for the South Jersey region. It's not so much about transit not working for the majority of South Jersey commuters but more about how to improve or increase TOD in the South Jersey region. As this is something that has been largely neglected for decades.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,809 posts, read 34,443,504 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinsj
I have never gotten in an accident at the merge if that what you mean. BTW there are bad drivers everywhere. People will cut you off on any highway regardless of the traffic pattern. I guess you think spending 800 million dollars will make sure that no one will ever cut you off again on 295/42/55.
I have been cut off in that mess & everyone who I know in South Jersey in real life has too. We have been lucky & not ended up dead. Others have not been so lucky.
I'm not stupid & know that you can get cut off anywhere, but that mess gives you minimal opportunities to keep yourself safe.
Had they fixed it decades ago, the price would have been lower.
considering todays weather accross the region id rather be in a train than on 295. Also considering NJ is one of the wealthiest states in the wealthiest nation on earth with the one of the lowest gas taxes in the country, i think we can spend more money on transit.
I have never gotten in an accident at the merge if that what you mean. BTW there are bad drivers everywhere. People will cut you off on any highway regardless of the traffic pattern. I guess you think spending 800 million dollars will make sure that no one will ever cut you off again on 295/42/55.
So, spending $800-$900 million to fix one of the worst road boondoggles in the country isn't worth it, but spending $1.2 billion on a light rail so Rowan med students can get to Cooper Hospital is totally worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly
You are correct in that jobs are very spread out in South Jersey. I think you can at least agree that one of the main reasons why it's like that today is because of the lack of adequate transit in South Jersey to begin with. Having more rail lines built will increase the possibility of having new businesses in those towns as they will see it as having easy accessibility to other towns/cities thus creating more centralized employment centers. This would increase more transit riders which in turn will be less cars on the road. So improving rail service is something that is very important for the South Jersey region. It's not so much about transit not working for the majority of South Jersey commuters but more about how to improve or increase TOD in the South Jersey region. As this is something that has been largely neglected for decades.
I'm not against transit, but many of the proposed projects don't make a lot of sense to me. Everything is built to funnel into Camden, but few people actually work in Camden. The projects would be better if they allowed for direct service into Philly itself without needng a transfer. I wonder how many people take the RiverLine as a commuting option going into the city versus just driving to a PATCO station?
Then we have the question of how are these proposed rail lines going to spur more centralized growth of business centers in South Jersey? Most South Jerseyans work in South Jersey. The proposed lines are being made to funnel people into the regions core. Currently there is an odd phenomenon of business moving to the suburbs while people are actually moving into the city. So, we have sort of an odd reverse commute situation going on.
All of this rail service, TOD, etc. is a great concept, but I'm not 100% convinced the execution is there and that it will have all of these wonderful longterm impacts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuckinsj
considering todays weather accross the region id rather be in a train than on 295. Also considering NJ is one of the wealthiest states in the wealthiest nation on earth with the one of the lowest gas taxes in the country, i think we can spend more money on transit.
Hey, me too on the train thing, but that's not an option for me and about 90% of the other commuters out there and it won't be even after they build all the rail lines you are talking about.
Also, just in case you weren't aware, transit is subsidized heavily by drivers.
I used to work for a major trucking company and am still employed in the fleet management industry. Most truck fleets purposefully route their trucks to avoid tolls when possible. With GPS and satellite communications, it even flags the truck the instant they get on a restricted road. For most truck fleets when they enter South Jersey they are running 295 from the Del Mem Br up to Bordentown where they make the change over to the Turnpike at exit 7 (reverse that when heading south). It saves them about $19 a trip doing that. I-295 carries about 90% of all heavy truck traffic moving through South Jersey.
As for the rest of what you are saying, as a former director of PhillyCarShare, I've heard it all before. Here is where the transit fantasy falls apart in South Jersey...the regions economy and employment centers are too diversified. Relatively very few people commute into Philly for work and the growing trend has actually been people living in the city, but commuting to the suburbs for employment. The simple fact is that transit will not work for the vast majority of people in South Jersey. They can build the Glassboro line and a line out to Mount Laurel and it might, at most, impact about 5% of commuters on the roads.
The overwhelming majority of people going through the 295/42 interchange on a daily basis are not heading to transit commutable destinations like Center City, but instead are heading to destinations within South Jersey itself.
I'm all for walkability and transit, but it has to be done sensibly with our limited resources. If TOD and all the wonders that it brings struggles to take hold in towns like Collingswood, Westmont, etc. why do you think it would be such a boon in other places after we spend a billion dollars building a rail line there?
I think more recently, you are correct that the job centers are all over the place (though there are some unofficial hubs in Cherry Hill and Mount Laurel). When we moved to Washington Township in the late 80's, virtually all of our development commuted to the city for employment of some kind (attorneys, government workers, etc.). I think history will show this employment de-centralization trend to be technology-driven more than any one thing that Philadelphia did (Philadelphia always was business-unfriendly and expensive). Entire industries can function with people on the telephone, Live Meeting, and computers all day (banking is a very good example).
New York is an outlier and TOD in South Jersey will never have the same impact as TOD in North Jersey because housing is so much cheaper. People are crammed into townhouses and condos in North Jersey because they can't afford anything bigger with a commute time that they will tolerate. Many jobs in NYC require you to be in NYC multiple times a week or every day.
Like everything else, TOD is a function of supply and demand. I think TOD has a niche market in Collingswood, but the market is much more limited as you suggested. We've discussed multiple times on this board how single family housing in Collingswood and nearby is plentiful and well-priced. I'm not sure you have the same housing dynamic up north.
That said, the Glassboro line is a good long-term idea because it links education centers in Glassboro to Camden. Longer-term (with a vision), you could drive an educated supply of graudates to a job center in Camden and link the two for internships, etc. If decentralization continues, who knows if that will ever materialize in a positive way, but the alternative (doing nothing) is no guarantee either.
So, spending $800-$900 million to fix one of the worst road boondoggles in the country isn't worth it, but spending $1.2 billion on a light rail so Rowan med students can get to Cooper Hospital is totally worth it.
The worst bottle neck in the country? Cite your sources. I doubt its the worst bottleneck in Philly Metro.
Was that statement about Rowan students a joke? Because if it wasnt then you sounded very ignorant about the light rail project. BTW the feds would also give 800 million.
The worst bottle neck in the country? Cite your sources. I doubt its the worst bottleneck in Philly Metro.
My quote was "worst boondoggles". I don't know what else you would call the decision to have two major commuter highways basically merge and exit onto each other like that. A situation that requires drivers to slow to 35 or less and then merge in a zipper pattern. I've NEVER seen another major highway with that design. Yes, it is a boondoggle, entirely illogical and is the busiest interchange in the region according to the NJDOT.
Quote:
Was that statement about Rowan students a joke? Because if it wasnt then you sounded very ignorant about the light rail project. BTW the feds would also give 800 million.
Yes it was a joke. No I am still not impressed with what they plan to accomplish with over a billion dollars.
Oh my god .. poor you.. for having to slow down to 35 mph.... you must really hate traffic, stop signs, traffic lights, and everything else in this world that stops you from driving as fast as you want.
Oh my god .. poor you.. for having to slow down to 35 mph.... you must really hate traffic, stop signs, traffic lights, and everything else in this world that stops you from driving as fast as you want.
Yes, yes I do. However, it still beats being huddled with the masses on a train or bus.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
